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themattcurtis wrote:In terms of fleshing out the minor powers, I'd think a solid approach -- since this thread will hopefully serve as home for more variant ship designs -- would be to model many of their hulls off vessels already represented in the rules.
Real life precedent -- leading up to WWI, minor league players trying to establish wet navy fleets purchased many of their ships from more industrialized/wealthy states. IE, Germany sloughed off some of its obsolete pre-dreadnought battleships to Greece, which also saw one wealthy patriot actually purchase a modern armored cruiser based off the Italian Pisa design. At roughly the same time, Turkey was looking to buy British dreadnoughts and light cruisers and French destroyers. When war broke out, England reneged on the deal and kept the two dreadnoughts for itself -- something that really steamed Turkey off and made it all that more likely to join Germany and its allies.
With the KF cluster being exploited by at least two of the major powers mentioned above (Germany and the UK), I don't think it'd be a stretch to see minor league players use the same approach and start buying modified versions of the older ship classes already represented in the rules.
I think that would be absolutely the way to go. I would also assume that there would be size limitations and some technology (like lightning projectors and everything in TMW except MGs) that the major powers wouldn't want to be willing to give up (or that the minors could afford).
cricket wrote:aresian wrote:And I didn't think of it until working up the Kosmoflotilla, but these ships would be mostly ported on Earth and making runs out into space as required right?
Actually, no. The ships remain in orbit -- I picture Cavorite spheres as being the main transport from land to space.
And the one question that's been magging me since I got the Merchant War.....why hasn't anyone been to the moon yet?
What makes you think no one has? 
True....what I should have said is " Why hasn't anyone told us about it yet?" or maybe just ask when?
Ok...to try to make up for the pun....
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the minor powers fleshed out. Just how easy is it to get and/or create hydrosteel?
And I didn't think of it until working up the Kosmoflotilla, but these ships would be mostly ported on Earth and making runs out into space as required right?
And the one question that's been magging me since I got the Merchant War.....why hasn't anyone been to the moon yet?
Of course the Soviets would be the first with Martian tech.... it is the RED planet afterall. (Let the groans commence.)
I know that this was originally for variant ships, but I had some inspiration. Here is the proletariat protecting Soviet Kosmoflotilla which inclues:
Battlecarrier Vladivostok... a carrier with a keel bombard (nicknamed Vlad the Impaler)
Cruiser Novosibirsk...an all cannon vessel
Lt. Cruiser Amur... packed with 40 fire arrows
Destroyer Taiga... jack of all trades, master of none
FAC Spiral... see what Soviet engineering can do to a FAC
Now to find time to get them into battle.
themattcurtis wrote:Aresian's Goalkeeper Destroyer Escorts attached here.
I just realized I screwed up on that one. The Gk Mk1 doesn't have it's torps. Here's a corrected pdf. And I even ran spellchecker on this one.
One day maybe I'll learn, but don't count on it.
And hey...could someone move the Gk Mk 2 post over here and delete the first one? Just to keep all the vessels with that great "new ship smell" together.
This might come in handy if anyone wants to generate pdfs. There's a program called CutePDF Writer that is free for personal and commercial use that adds a pdf distiller. Basically CutePDF Writer adds itself like a printer and any program you can print from you can "print" to the distiller and it will create a pdf. If anyone is interested here is the link http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp.
Here's a zipped pdf of the original Goalkeeper and the Mk2 version. The Mk2 replaces the torps with a 10 pack of rockets. Point cost goes from 11 to 12. And the points are 12 whether she carries Congreve or Hale rockets.
Actually I wasn't unhappy with how the Goalkeeper turned out. And I can't believe I forgot about rockets. I think I'll post a Goalkeeper Mk2 soon and dump the torps in favor of rockets. I like the MGs because they're not limited by ammo. And the rockets will still let it have a limited anti ship capability. The one thing I do like about this design is that it gets a destroyer back to the origins of it's name... torpedo boat destroyer.
cricket wrote:aresian wrote:And to go along with the Merchant War theme... I'm posting a zipped version of a Gamma variant that I'm going to try out at some point. Basically the Goalkeeper is a Gamma with MGs replacing the LGs.
Very nice!
I can't wait to hear how it works out in practice...
Dan
Well I tried it out. First time using FACs as well. I gave the Brits 4 freighters to escort with 4 Goalkeepers against 7 Harpune. For this I was just interested in how Gks would work against fighters so I didn't add any other vessels. Finally realized that FACs are not fighters, they're torpedo boats or PT boats basically. Also the combination of speed, manuverability and move last shoot first make them a real pain to defend against. I put the freighters in line and posted the Gks in a diamond pattern around the freighters. That was the only way I could see to provide coverage for all of the ships. The Harpune split into two groups and attacked each of first two freighters. The second group blew theirs apart with torps and the first group had to finish off theirs with MGs. When the Gks got to open up they took 3 with MGs and 2 with torps. (In a normal game I think I would have saved the torps for larger fish.) After that with all their ordinance expended the Harpune would withdraw. By attacking the first two freighters the rear Gk was left out of a firing position. Goalkeepers can make fighters pay a heavy price for their attacks, but they can't stop them from completing an attack run. They'd have to be stacked up 3 deep creating a MG minefield for that to happen.
I know. Me again and more questions. I take it that for FACs that they can fire all of their MGs out of one arc? That seems implied in their description. I also take it that FACs cannot be rearmed after they are recovered and relaunched. The rules didn't state that they could and that makes sense, just double checking.
The RN ships Banneret and Herschel are missing from the Scenario Six ship sheets. And Scenario Seven has a completly different list of British ships versus the scenario discreption.
And what happens if you do not take any or all of the extra points from having freighters?
cricket wrote:aresian wrote:Is there a need to roll night/day for battles taking place in the belt? There's no planet to block the sun. Also anyone have an educated guess as to how far away from the sun you'd have to be before searchlights become mandatory?
I guess the answer would be "no"... all fights within the cluster would be "daylight".
As far as distance before searchlights are mandatory, I'd say we don't need to worry about that at least until we take the fight to Mars.
Are freighters and stations equipped with searchlights? And what about fighters? (I have this mental image of a group of flashlights duct taped to the outside of a fighter. 
)
Huh. Stations should have 'em... freighters not so much. FACs, I dunno.
And I think there ought to be an option to add searchlights. All alone in the dark a ship like the Goalkeeper is going to have a heckuva time trying to pick out fighters without help or additional searchlights.
I guess that's possible. What seems a fair SU price?
Just off the top of my head.... if a MG is 1 then 1/2?
And I was thinking the KF Cluster was in the main asteroid belt beyond Mars. Should have read closer. Wondered why they went way out there and Mars had been bypassed. All clear now.
I've got more questions after thinking about using the Goalkeeper and they involve searchlights.
Is there a need to roll night/day for battles taking place in the belt? There's no planet to block the sun. Also anyone have an educated guess as to how far away from the sun you'd have to be before searchlights become mandatory?
Are freighters and stations equipped with searchlights? And what about fighters? (I have this mental image of a group of flashlights duct taped to the outside of a fighter. )
And I think there ought to be an option to add searchlights. All alone in the dark a ship like the Goalkeeper is going to have a heckuva time trying to pick out fighters without help or additional searchlights.
cricket wrote:aresian wrote:I'll sum up my opinion by saying that it defintely left me wanting more. I can't wait to see what happens with the Great War and wanting American ships.
Okay... just to be clear; by "it definitely left me wanting more", you mean "it was great and I can't wait to see what's next", not "it was lacking something", right?
Definitely it was of the "it was great and I can't wait to see what's next" variety.
I'll sum up my opinion by saying that it defintely left me wanting more. I can't wait to see what happens with the Great War and wanting American ships. It's definitely worth picking up. The introduction of fighters is logical and, without having actually gamed them yet, the fighter rules make sense. And that comes from someone who normally does not like fighters in space combat. Just a personal preference. What higher praise can you give an expansion when you can't wait to try out the new rules and scenarios, it fires up the imagination for new ships and scenarios and you can't wait to see what comes out next?
jimbeau wrote:That means it would pretty much have to be a Sunday. OTOH perhaps we should get a group from the forums and meet at a con. (How I wish I could get to Origins this year.) Any ideas on either front?
Sunday's fine with me. Name the day(s)
jim
You're coming from so far away you name the day(s). This Sunday I'm committed to another game and on the 15th I have to be out of town for a wedding. Name any other day and I'll set it up.
And to go along with the Merchant War theme... I'm posting a zipped version of a Gamma variant that I'm going to try out at some point. Basically the Goalkeeper is a Gamma with MGs replacing the LGs.
I thought fighters would have an easier time in a minefield. And that makes perfect sense now.
And no psbs needed. With that kind of armor the designer's probably figured it would be redundant to add torp nets.
Most of these questions came from looking at Scenario 8 God Save the Queen. Maybe they could be summed up by "Does the Queen need God's help?"
Do stations have the ability to use Torpedo Nets? The rules state that all ships size medium and larger have them. Does that apply to stations? Seems the only drawback would be that the station then could not make it's 45 degree turn.
FAC rules state that they're subject to all ship rules except for the exceptions listed. This means that they're subject to the hazards of running a mine field. And only have a 50/50 chance of surviving for each inch they move in one. Harpune making a run on the Celestial Queen is suicide considering the distance they have to cover getting into launch range.
If those suppositions are true then it looks like the best tactic is to make an allout run to the Queen using the Harpune as escorts for the other fighters and hoping the Seraphs' rockets and the torps on the ships can do the job.
Bad news. Getting a table all day on a Saturday is looking to be impossible with the regularly scheduled groups. Right now for a Saturday the suggestion is just show up and hope that one of the regular groups doesn't. Obviously that's not anything I would recommend with the distance you'd have to come. That means it would pretty much have to be a Sunday. OTOH perhaps we should get a group from the forums and meet at a con. (How I wish I could get to Origins this year.) Any ideas on either front?
jimbeau wrote:A saturday would be better, but Let me know if a sunday table is more likely
I'll get in contact with GP in the next couple of days and see what will work. Even if I can't get a table regularly for Saturdays I'm sure I can get one on a Saturday and do Iron Stars all day. The guy I spoke with there is interested in getting some Brigade stuff in and hopefully this will make their decision easier, not to mention getting to try out the new rules.
thedugan wrote:I've actually been in that store. I've heard they moved, but if it's the one I'm thinking of, it's been there since at least 1985. Is Mt Prospect is south of Waukegan, north of Chicago?
I think you've got it. At least you've nailed the location of Mt. Prospect. I've only been in the area a couple of years, but it's got to be the best game store I've seen.
And darn you MJ12. Making me spend an hour downloading new gaming goodness on a crappy dial up modem. (Like I could wait for a POD.) And now I've got to printout some new counters so we can put the Celestial Queen to the test. And IS:TMW gets a thumbs up from a preliminary read through (even if it does have fighters).
I haven't decided when to start. I was thinking about Sundays. Seems to be a better chance of getting a table all day. The store is Games Plus in Mt Prospect. Hours are Noon-7pm on Sunday and website is www.games-plus.com
Sound good to you? Or is a Saturday better?
I'm trying to set up a date to play Iron Stars at a local gaming store. Where's the right place to try to dig up some fellow players? I'd like this to become a weekly thing to play IS and Starmada and maybe a few lesser starship games.
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