I would love to run Jutland using Grand Fleets, but that just aint gonna happen in a convention environment.

Dreadnoughts is a MUCH faster system than Grand Fleets.  The GF to-hit calculation process takes significantly more time (relatively speaking) than Dreadnoughts with its relatively fixed values. 

That little bit of extra time per ship adds up to a LOT of time when multiplied across 64 or more ships being handled per turn.

To run Jutland using Grand Fleets, it would have to be the kind of thing where you and a buddy could just leave it out and play it over the course of a couple weeks. . . . which I could do at the house. . . if I found somebody that committed to playing it!  LOL!!

Now. . . what I might do is run the battlecruiser action using Grand Fleets.  We'll have to see how things shape up.

I also noticed that armor was getting penetrated very easily. . . but the guns I noticed it with were generally 9+ inches and at relatively close range.  Under those circumstances, I don't think even the dreadnought armor of the time (until post Jutland) would have really stood up very well against it. . . assuming of course the shells weren't defective.

Well. . . plus the fact that torpedoes generally have big IMP and DMG numbers, which make them much more deadly on impact than even the heaviest shell. . . as they should be.

Ooops. . . meant /1000

Cool.

Actually she did.    LOL!!

Heh. . . didn't even notice the secondary battery being 9.2s.  Well I did. . . and it struck me a little wierd. . . but I didn't actually check.  Shame on me.

Ok. . .

So I picked up e-copies of S:AE and S:Dreadnoughts so I could check it out.  Of course I couldn't go to bed until I'd read all the way through them. . . so its now 2AM.  Good thing its Friday.

Can I just say. . . wow!  This is awesome.  I've had this idea floating around in the back of my head about running Jutland at GenCon next year.  This rule set might actually make it possible.  Grand Fleets, while I love it, is just too detailed and complicated to teach to a bunch of convention-goers and then run a HUGE battle with.  I think I might be able to do it with S:Dreadnoughts.

Also, I'd always assumed I wouldn't be able to go below the light cruiser level even if I did. . . but the destroyer flotilla rules and stats provided might just make it possible to drop to that level.  Of course, the flotillas you provide are 4 destroyers each, rather than 12. . . but close enough.  Too many destroyers in one flotilla would distort the actual effectivenss of them.

I was thinking that for destroyer flotillas with a light cruiser command ship.  They would just manuever and fire as one ship but keep seperate sheets, with the following rules:

1.  Incoming hits are allocated between command ship and flotilla.  1-3 hits the command ship, 4-6 hits the flotilla.

2.  The entire element is limited to the speed of the lowest component (command ship or flotilla).

3.  At any point the owning player may scuttle any portion of the element.  So if the command ship is slowing down the whole flotilla, it can be scuttled and the flotilla operates independently at that point.

Anyway. . . I'm super excited about this rule set.  Can't wait to try it out!!

Edit:  I didn't see stats for the German pre-dreads that were at Jutland.  Any suggestions on how to create them?

One final thing. . . any chance you will update the shipbuilder with the options from Dreadnoughts?  Or maybe copy it and create a slightly different version that just has the DN stuff in it?

I kinda like the pyramidal structure. . . perhaps not as strict as the one you propose though.  Maybe just something for the biggest units.

For every B level ship, you have to have three ships of C or below, or something like that.

Historically commander "morale" or willingness to risk ships played a decisive role in shaping the outcome of many naval battles.

Jutland of course. . . from Jellicoe's decision to turn away from the German torpedo attacks - allowing the High Seas Fleet to escape, to Admiral Scheer's battle turn away, back again, and away a second time.

In WWII the Battle off Samar is another famous example.  Had the Japanese center force simply pressed on into the face of attacks by American destroyers and escort carriers, they would have been able to bombard the American landings at Leyte and possibly change the outcome of that campign.  Instead, they turned and fled against a vastly inferior opponent.

In wargames without morale rules, ships always fight to the death, which is highly unrealistic.  Morale is every bit as important to naval engagements as it is to land battles.

Perhaps if a ship/squadron fails a morale check they have to move directly away from the enemy and try to make it off a table edge until they either pass a morale check again or flee the battle.  The other rule set I looked at just had you remove ships as soon as they failed a check.  I think it would be preferable to give the opponent a chance to finish off a ship and/or the possibility that the ship might "regroup."

I thought you were talking about the "excellent" B Sci Fi movie from the early 90's! 

Go to:

http://grandfleets.pbwiki.com

Its under the rules section at the top.  Let me know if you have any problems finding it.