Star Ranger wrote:

Actually FT Fleet Book 2 adds a suggested revision to vector movement that thruster pushes are limited to a maximum of 1 thrust point.

True, and I confess that I'd forgotten about that when I posted above. The FB2 suggestions do make "thruster pushes" less bogus. However our group feels that the push acceleration is stilll too high. The manoeuvring thrusters on a thrust-2 battlewagon would still be delivering 50% of the main engines' acceleration.

RedShark92 wrote:

I'd say B5 is solidly a step in that direction. You're right that it wasn't perfect but it was one of the first shows of it's kind to even make the attempt.

Oh I agree. I practically fell out of my chair the first time I saw a Star Fury  firing attitude control jets and spinning on its axis to manoeuvre.

Well I'm working on B5 as my primary focus and attempting to be true to the source material limits my options here to some degree. B5 ships tend to have primary weapons facing forward with arcs usually (but not always) relatively limited (i.e., 30-60 degree) firing arcs with secondary and tertiary weapons spread through the ship giving at least some coverage all around the ship, though obviously less to the back.

Yes, and fair enough too; if you're gaming in a particular SF "world" it is more important to capture the feel than get all nerdy with the physics, I think (though I'm an unabashed physics geek...). From my FT experience, limited arc weapons are much better value in vector anyway.

I agree with you here in that it's a situation that is realistic but not conducive to balance between larger and smaller ships. Making ships pay more for rotations isn''t realistic but it solves a lot of potential problems.

Actually I do not think the "big heavy ships should be able to rotate as quickly as smaller lighter ones" thing is realistic. Rotational inertia is still inertia. The trouble is that with a time scale of around 15 minutes per turn, the "burn a thrust point per arc" rule may be an over-compensation, though it does address some game-balance issues. We haven't reached a consensus yet...

japridemor wrote:

My gaming group has come to Starmada after a very brief flirt with Full Thrust. When we began to play Starmada we used the vector movement as it seemed more “realistic”. After several battles, involving just such quick fly-bys as you mentioned, we switched to Stamada's intrinsic “cinematic” system. The vector movement reduced maneuvers in combat and all ships tended to have AB arc weapons as you were always turning to thrust at your opponent. With the regular Starmada movement, there is more maneuvering and it makes for a more challenging game as ships need side and rear mounted weapons.

I recently purchased Starmada X after playing Full Thrust for a while, primarily to see if SX's ship design system would be a better fit with my group's  custom setting. For my personal taste, if it's in space, it has to be vector, and I think FT's implementation is better, subject to the caveat that our house-rules do not permit manoeuvring thrusters to do anything but turn or roll the ship (FT's "thruster push" rule is ridiculous IMHO; I just don't believe in manoeuvring thrusters capable of delivering half the acceleration of the main drive!).

Our experience is that vector movement does not inhibit manoeuvre, but it does make it very different from what we're all used to in the way wet-navy ships, aircraft etc. behave. Of course it's exactly the audience's unfamiliarity that leads the makers of most TV and movie SF to ignore physics and have spaceships banking into turns, whooshing as they pass by etc. I don't think there's much point using anything but "cinematic" movement if you're playing in the Star W*rs or Star Tr*k universes. B5 is a bit better, but still has apparently reaction-engined Earth Alliance ships decelerating into orbit etc. while still flying "bows forward" as it were.

The "put all your weapons in the front arc and charge" mutual fly-by scenario is encouraged by "line 'em up and send 'em in" encounter-battle scenarios, but it's not the only approach.  For example long-range weapons covering the broadside arcs offer interesting tactical options for holding the range open and circling the enemy's flanks as he charges. Think Saracen horse-archers rather than charging knights...

An issue our group has discussed a fair bit is the "sit and spin" problem. FT's vector rules allow a ship to turn from any heading to any other by burning one Thrust Point (TP). As a result, even the most sluggish armoured behemoth can spin as nimbly on its axis as the speediest frigate, and bring even single arc weapons to bear on any chosen bearing. That doesn't really feel right, and we've experimented with adopting the Turn-a-TP-for-each-arc-turned approach. That means, for example, that Thrust 2 dreadnaughts take two turns to reverse their heading, and gives an incentive to fit them with multi-arc weapons to counter nimbler opponents.