• Registered: 2010-06-29
  • Posts: 82

Topic: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

I've just played my first actual game big_smile . However we did have a few questions.

1. I had 7 fighters and 3 ships while my opponent had 4 ships and had the initiative. I worked the sequence as 1-3-1-3-1-2-1-2, which having read the rules again should have been 1-2-1-2-1-3-1-3. His first ship however destroyed 3 fighter flights! How should that effect the combat sequence or indeed should it? Should we recalculate it to 1-1-1-2-1-2-1-2? This would produce some weird issues if the losses had occurred  later and some had fired and some not. Or do we just carry on and once I had run out of un-destroyed ships to fire stop?

2. Also do you count ships which have no targets (out of range etc.) in the fire sequence? Ships could be in range at the beginning of combat but not when activated. which would produce a similar issue to 1 above.

3. Anti-fighter fire I assume a Dx2 weapon would destroy a fighter flight on a hit.

Comments:
I tested my QRS and found a few errors (-2 for damaged fighters missing!) I will post it once I've redone it as a rival for Madpax, working on the assumption that two QRS are better than one wink .

I have decided to adopt the alternative fighter combat system as it is the same as Marines/Mines/Asteroids and will be simpler I think in the long run.

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

mikeaxe wrote:

3. Anti-fighter fire I assume a Dx2 weapon would destroy a fighter flight on a hit.

According to Dan's errata here http://www.mj12games.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3647&start=50 it would not.
Erik

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

mikeaxe wrote:

I've just played my first actual game big_smile . However we did have a few questions.
1. I had 7 fighters and 3 ships while my opponent had 4 ships and had the initiative. I worked the sequence as 1-3-1-3-1-2-1-2, which having read the rules again should have been 1-2-1-2-1-3-1-3. His first ship however destroyed 3 fighter flights! How should that effect the combat sequence or indeed should it? Should we recalculate it to 1-1-1-2-1-2-1-2? This would produce some weird issues if the losses had occurred  later and some had fired and some not. Or do we just carry on and once I had run out of un-destroyed ships to fire stop?

I believe the outnumbering rule is for the movement phase only.
The sequence during the combat phase is simply alternating fire between sides, one ship at a time.
At least that's how we have played it.

mikeaxe wrote:

2. Also do you count ships which have no targets (out of range etc.) in the fire sequence? Ships could be in range at the beginning of combat but not when activated. which would produce a similar issue to 1 above.

They don't count, and I'm not sure why you'd want to nominate a ship to fire when it's out of range anyway.
But if you alternate ships one at a time you don't have this problem.

Kevin

  • Registered: 2010-06-29
  • Posts: 82

Re: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

Blacklancer99
Thanks missed that.

underling
On page 8 the firing sequence for two ships Vs 5 is A-R-R-A-R-R-R. So I think the out numbering is in the fire phase as well as the movement, but the 'loading' is towards the end rather than the front (as for movement) of the sequence.

As for the point about why you would count a ship that was out of range. You of course would not nominate a ship out of range, but suppose 3 of the R fleet were out of range, could I fire both R ships that are in range before the second A ship? What happens if all ships are in range at the beginning but loses makes some ships out of range later, does that alter the sequence? (more of an issue in a longer sequence).

I have been thinking about this all day and suspect the answer is; You do not include the ships initially out of range and you calculate the sequence patten at the beginning of the phase and if circumstances change the sequence patten remains the same with one side running out of ships early. All the other options I've considered can be 'manipulated'.

Also don't forget that a ship may now be out of range but any seekers activate when the ship does so you may need to activate a nominally 'out-of-range' ship which would of course count in the sequence calculation.

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

mikeaxe wrote:

Blacklancer99
Thanks missed that.
underling
On page 8 the firing sequence for two ships Vs 5 is A-R-R-A-R-R-R. So I think the out numbering is in the fire phase as well as the movement, but the 'loading' is towards the end rather than the front (as for movement) of the sequence.
As for the point about why you would count a ship that was out of range. You of course would not nominate a ship out of range, but suppose 3 of the R fleet were out of range, could I fire both R ships that are in range before the second A ship? What happens if all ships are in range at the beginning but loses makes some ships out of range later, does that alter the sequence? (more of an issue in a longer sequence).
I have been thinking about this all day and suspect the answer is; You do not include the ships initially out of range and you calculate the sequence patten at the beginning of the phase and if circumstances change the sequence patten remains the same with one side running out of ships early. All the other options I've considered can be 'manipulated'.

Yep, I missed this.
I was looking for the activation sequence earlier and didn't notice that there was one for combat.
It looks to me to work the same though. I think it just looks like it's "backloaded" because the numbers in the examples are different.
As for destroyed ships altering the sequence, I'd think it'd be calculated at the beginning of the phase, and not change due to losses.

mikeaxe wrote:

Also don't forget that a ship may now be out of range but any seekers activate when the ship does so you may need to activate a nominally 'out-of-range' ship which would of course count in the sequence calculation.

With respect to seekers, I just want to make sure we're on the same page. They activate and attack after the target ship attacks. So a targeted ship will never be totally out of range, because if nothing else they can fire at seekers attacking them.
Kevin

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

mikeaxe wrote:

How should that effect the combat sequence or indeed should it? Should we recalculate it to 1-1-1-2-1-2-1-2? This would produce some weird issues if the losses had occurred  later and some had fired and some not. Or do we just carry on and once I had run out of un-destroyed ships to fire stop?

The "activate multiple ships at once" rule applies to the entire Combat Phase, even if the larger force is reduced due to enemy weapons fire.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-06-29
  • Posts: 82

Re: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

Ok so changes during the phase are ignored, it makes sense. My opponent had visited me and stayed over night we had already played a modern naval and an ACW game the day before and just fitted in a few turns of SNE to see how the rules worked before he set off home. I was both teaching and learning the rules and did not have an answer off the top of my head, so asked.

As for Seekers, I have reread the rules and Underling you are correct the seeker is activated by the target not the firer.  That means that every ship that has a potential target must be activated at some point. Why would you not ... why to avoid that 300+ missile yikes  attack on your carrier that's why!

[Note to Cricket: When you write the rules could you also please make sure I read them properly.  :roll: ]

Anyway thanks for the answers now to start some conversions to SNE. big_smile

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: Firing Sequence and other questions (Nova)

mikeaxe wrote:

As for Seekers, I have reread the rules and Underling you are correct the seeker is activated by the target not the firer.  That means that every ship that has a potential target must be activated at some point. Why would you not ... why to avoid that 300+ missile yikes  attack on your carrier that's why!

This does bring up an interesting question, though, and one that I don't believe has been addressed in the rules.
Can a ship that has seekers targeting it not activate during the combat phase, and if so, when do the seekers impact?
It probably should be stated in the rules that any ship that has seekers targeting it must activate at some point during the combat phase.

Kevin