1,051

(46 replies, posted in Starmada)

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

So, would you be able to allow SAE impact dice to take the same form as Damage [X] in a similar way to damage dice?

Yes. "Impact [X]" would function identically to the existing IMP stat.

madpax wrote:

AFAIK, as per the above examples, IMP is factored as dice.

Please note the example I provided is (slightly) simplified so that the process is as clearly articulated as possible. In order to make sure the conversions remain "legal" (in terms of space units) and their relative combat ratings remain constant, some other factors will no doubt crop up in the final conversion rules.

Further, if an "Impact [X]" trait is adopted, then one could either use IMP as a factor to the number of attack dice, or apply that trait, depending upon the desired effect.

1,052

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

More discussion on this later*, but in general terms:

The simple method is for weapons to degrade uniformly. At each damage step (1/3 and 2/3 of the total), a die roll is made:

ROLL : RESULT
1 : None
2-4 : Apply a -1 firing penalty to all attacks
5-6 : Apply a -2 firing penalty to all attacks

The reasons for these penalties are not really important (i.e. are individual weapons lost? Is the rate of fire being reduced? Is energy bleeding out?); the effect is that the firepower of a ship's weapons is being reduced.

The more advanced method is to track damage to individual banks. At each damage step (1/3 and 2/3 of the total), roll one die per bank:

ROLL : RESULT
1 : Bank is destroyed
2-3 : Bank is damaged; apply a -2 penalty
4-6 : None

A second "damaged" result indicates the bank is destroyed.

The nice thing is, since the overall effect is identical (an average loss of 1/3 firepower at each damage step), each player can decide how to track damage for himself, and the game will still balance out.

*I'm planning on a few more "Designer's Notes" mini-articles, including one on movement, one on defenses, and one on how ships are damaged/destroyed.

1,053

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

Totally agreed. Maybe some designer notes could answer that. Not necessarily for all ships. In the above example, you can explain that PB 5 means one phaser I, AP 3 means two of them, etc.

And herein lies the paradigm shift.

[PB5] doesn't mean "one Phaser-2 firing PB"; it means "the PB bank contains roughly 18% of the total firepower of this battery." If a battery consists of six weapons, [PB5] indicates a single weapon; however, if a battery has 10 weapons, [PB5] indicates two weapons; and so on.

1,054

(46 replies, posted in Starmada)

Maybe this will help people grasp what I'm doing with the new attack dice system... and see that nothing is being lost in translation.

Let's consider an example from the Imperial Starmada Sourcebook: the Negali Sverse-class cruiser. She has three batteries:

Shock Cannons: RNG 15 / ROF 1 / ACC 4+ / IMP 3 / DMG 4
Fire-Linked / Piercing
[AB][AB]

Dorsal/Ventral Plasma Cannons: RNG 12 / ROF 1 / ACC 4+ / IMP 1 / DMG 2
Doubled Range Mods
[AB][AB]

Railguns: RNG 9 / ROF 2 / ACC 4+ / IMP 1 / DMG 1
Carronade
[ACE][ACE][BDF][BDF]

First, the Shock Cannons. The total number of attack dice in the battery is determined by the following equation: # of weapons x ROF x IMP = 2 x 1 x 3 = 6. To account for ACC 4+, we give them the "Accurate" weapon trait. Likewise, because DMG is greater than 1, we use the "Damage [X]" weapon trait. "Fire-Linked" has no counterpart in the new system; however, the "Piercing" trait simply transfers over. There's a single bank of two weapons firing forward. Since the ratio of weapons in the bank to total weapons is 100%, the arc modifier is zero: thus, the arc display is "[FF]".

Second, the Plasma Cannons. The total number of attack dice is: 2 x 1 x 1 = 2. Again, the "Accurate" trait applies, as does "Damage [X]". "Doubled Range Mods" is renamed as "Diffuse". Once again, the arc display is simple: [FF].

Finally, the Railguns. The total number of attack dice is: 4 x 2 x 1 = 8. As before, the "Accurate" trait applies. The "Carronade" trait simply carries over. There are two banks, each with 50% of the total. A 50% reduction in firepower translates to a -2 modifier; thus, the arc display is [PB2][SB2].

The result:

Shock Cannons [size=85](Acr/Dx4/Prc)[/size]
Arcs [FF] / Range 5-10-15 / Attack Dice: 6 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1

Dorsal/Ventral Plasma Cannons [size=85](Acr/Dfs/Dx2)[/size]
Arcs [FF] / Range 4-8-12 / Attack Dice: 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1

Railguns [size=85](Acr/Crn)[/size]
Arcs [PB2][SB2] / Range 3-6-9 / Attack Dice: 8 - 6 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1

This is merely the simplest way of converting it over. A little bit of imagination would allow different results -- for example, instead of applying the "Accurate" trait, one could use the ACC stat as a multiplier to the number of attack dice. ACC 4+ = x1.5; ACC 3+ = x2.0. In this case, the results would be:

Shock Cannons [size=85](Dx4/Prc)[/size]
Arcs [FF] / Range 5-10-15 / Attack Dice: 9 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1

Dorsal/Ventral Plasma Cannons [size=85](Dfs/Dx2)[/size]
Arcs [FF] / Range 4-8-12 / Attack Dice: 3 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1

Railguns [size=85](Crn)[/size]
Arcs [PB2][SB2] / Range 3-6-9 / Attack Dice: 12 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1

1,055

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

Bloody fighter jocks, whats the matter with a big-gun battleship anyway...:P

Hear, hear!

1,056

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

One thing that could help us 'understand' the ship we are using is to indicate how many weapons there are per banks. I know it could clutter the weapon banks description but looking at the ship sample sheets from SFU, I fail to see what they represent in reality.

I'm not sure how to do this without making things less, instead of more, clear. For example, "[PB5][SB5][AP3][AS3]" tells you what you need to know (the port/starboard broadside banks have a -5 modifier, the aft-port and aft-starboard banks have a -3 modifier). If you add in the number of weapons -- like this: "[1xPB5][1xSB5][2xAP3][2xAP3]" -- not only does the display get more cluttered for the sake of useless information (the presence of two weapons in each of the aft banks is already reflected in the arc modifiers) but you risk players wondering if this means there are two of each bank, or whether those banks can be fired twice.

cricket wrote:

It doesn't matter whether that forward-extended bank represents a single large weapon or a cluster of smaller weapons -- what matters is the bank's ability to bring firepower to bear. Thus, the attack dice...

As I said, I (and maybe 'we') need to feel the weapons we are firing. If a bunch a high rof weapons let us roll the same number of dice than a big cannon

Okay, this was probably an unfortunate thing for me to have said. I was trying to explain that the arc modifier is relative, not an absolute, but I ended up implying something else.

Let me say, once again, that THERE WILL BE A DIFFERENCE between multiple high-ROF weapons and a single high-damage weapon.

What I'm asking players to do is accept a paradigm shift in which what matters is not the number of individual weapons firing into a given arc, but the relative strength of the entire "bank". In this way, yes, there is a certain degree of abstraction. However, 90% of the time, if you've got 4 forward-firing torpedoes, these were going to fire at the same target, anyway. (For the other 10%, you can use the "split fire" rule.)

Oh, and if something can be done in order to make fighters cheaper (and thus more numerous), more the better!

We'll see. smile

1,057

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

mikeaxe wrote:

Dan,
On the ROF/IMP/DMG vs Attack dice argument I feel you miss the point [...] Yes all the attack die statistically give no different a result and the effects will be fast to play but our imagination will need to work that much harder ...

All I can do is refer to you the post above, where I outline the attack process in SAE vs. the process in the new system. The differences are NOT what you all are latching on to:

There is still an attack roll.

There is still an impact roll (if the target has shields).

There is, however, no longer a damage roll -- instead, the effects of are deferred to the 1/3 and 2/3 damage points.

and to cap does Santa know you've postponed Christmas until January?   tongue

I have a signed consent form.

1,058

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

Enpeze wrote:

Is there still simultaneous movement plotting in the new starmada?

As noted by others, the existing demo rules work on an initiative/alternating movement model; however, this may change. Even if it doesn't, the option for simultaneous movement would still exist.

What is about the damage, once you achieved a hit? Will you first cross out the shield boxes and then the hull boxes?

No. Shields will work as they always have. There is a new option for ship defenses, armor, that would work in the way you describe.

1,059

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

Inari7 wrote:

Maybe I should not have said MUST, but for a SUCCESSFUL one-on-one starship combat game

In my vocabulary, "to be successful" translates to "must". smile

I'll say it again: there is no loss of detail in weapon design (or nearly so; as of this moment, there's no way to differentiate between IMP and DMG -- but that could easily change). It's just that once you've designed your weapons, and arranged them into banks, the manner in which they are represented on the ship display changes.

An example:

(SAE)
Pulse Cannons -- RNG 9 / ROF 2 / ACC 5+ / IMP 1 / DMG 2
[AB] [AC] [AC] [BD] [BD]

(New Edition)
Pulse Cannons -- ARCS [FF4][FP2][FS2] / RNG 3-6-9 / ATTACK DICE 10-7-5-4-3-2-1-1-1 (Dx2)

I think with this edition of Starmada you are changing the "Scale" of the of the game.

IMHO, you are over-estimating the amount of abstraction going on, or at least misidentifying where the abstraction is happening. (Frankly, I had expected more gnashing of teeth over the loss of the damage location roll than anything else.)

Look at what's happening: you're determining the appropriate number of dice (1), and then making a to-hit roll (2). If you score hits, and the target has shields, you must confirm these hits (3). Finally, the appropriate number of damage boxes are checked off of the target's display (4).

With SAE, you're determining the appropriate number of dice (1), and then making a to-hit roll (2). If you score hits, and the target has shields, you must confirm these hits (3). Finally, the appropriate number of damage boxes are rolled for damage location (4), and the results checked off of the target's display (5).

What are the real differences?

First, the number of attack dice is more fluid. Instead of always rolling 9 dice for a bank of three ROF-3 weapons, you might now roll anywhere from 1 to 12 dice. In other words, instead of altering the target number, you are altering the number of dice rolled. (If you want to simulate a more accurate weapon, there's a trait for that.)

Second, the option (not requirement) exists to eliminate one roll of the dice by concentrating ship defenses into armor and ECM, thus removing the shield roll.

Third, a roll of the dice (often two rolls, when you consider the weapon damage chart) to determine the effect of each specific hit has been replaced by system checks at 1/3 and 2/3 damage.

Thats what I am talking about, It does not matter mathematically it's true, but when I make a weapon that has a ROF 3 and a IMP of 2, fluff wise this means that my weapon is "Rapid firing and is armor pincering, or another weapon with a ROF 1 and DAM3 this is a big weapon that fires slower and does alot of damage. In Starmada III this might (probably not) have the same stat number.

"Starmada III"? By my count, this is at least "Starmada VIII". wink

The ability to differentiate between high-ROF, low-damage weapons and low-ROF, high-damage weapons remains. I'll say it again: there is nothing you can do with the SAE weapon construction rules that won't be reflected in the new system. (Even the IMP vs. DMG differentiation will probably remain when all is said and done.)

1,060

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

Inari7 wrote:

Not sure I like this new system, I enjoy making individual weapons.

Individual weapons are still represented. For example, one bank of four weapons firing into the forward-extended arc, one bank of two weapons firing into each of the forward-port and forward-starboard arcs, and one bank of one weapon firing aft would be represented as follows:  [FX2][FP4][FS4][AA6]

(Heck, if you're really intent on it, you can delcare each individual weapon is a separate "bank" -- in this case, the arc displays would change to [FX6][FX6][FX6][FX6][FP6][FP6][FS6][FS6][AA6]. However, this is ugly, you lose granularity, and since there is a rule allowing you to split a bank's fire between two or more targets, there's really no reason for it.)

What's happened is an extension of Starmada's "effect over cause" philosophy. It doesn't matter whether that forward-extended bank represents a single large weapon or a cluster of smaller weapons -- what matters is the bank's ability to bring firepower to bear. Thus, the attack dice...

Anything you can do/have done in Starmada to this point is still possible.

However, the means by which you determine hits/damage is more streamlined. Also (and this was the biggest selling point for me) it is more consistent. As stated earlier, in SAE (and previous editions) a +1 modifier did not have a consistent effect, resulting in a 50% increase in overall firepower on a 5+ weapon and a 25% increase on a 3+ weapon. Now, +1 means the same regardless of other factors.

On a philosophical note, I don't agree with the premise that "When making a rules system for fewer ships the more detailed the system needs to be." Sure -- the fewer units on the board, the more detail/crunchiness one CAN add to the system; but that's different than MUST. If the same (or reasonably similar) effect can be achieved with a more efficient game mechanic, there's no reason not to use it, particularly if it means the same system can be used for 2-3 ships per side or 20+ ships per side.

1,061

(27 replies, posted in Grand Fleets)

Whiteylegs wrote:

Sooooo... when may we expect these

Look for news after the first of the year.

1,062

(297 replies, posted in Starmada)

kehrer1701 wrote:

I just saw the back page in CL44 with the new ship examples.  Does this mean that Shield arcs are no longer a factor? I kind of liked being able to target a weakend shield arc...

I'm still considering how to retain the "feel" of separate shield arcs without having a different set of damage boxes for each one.

1,063

(297 replies, posted in Starmada)

underling wrote:
madpax wrote:

I'd still like to know about some things, here and there.
- Silent run
- Jinking

I don't think so for either of the above...

Perhaps "run silent". I kinda like it.

- Emergency acceleration
- Screening

I believe so for both of the above...

Depends on what you mean by "screening".

- Extra pivot

I've been trying to convince the designer on this one, but so far he won't budge.  smile
So my guess is no.

The problem with "extra pivot" is that, in a vector-ish movement system, the thrust required to perform this additional turn increases proportionally to the ship's speed... Perhaps something like "Overthrusters (X)" where X is the maximum speed at which a ship may perform an additional turn.

1,064

(297 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

For example, will there be the notion of 'special actions', as can be seen in SAE and SFO (or new ones)

There are no "special actions" in SAE... ? -- unless you're referring to the advanced rules for various types of movement (rolls, sideslips, etc.) in which case, yes, those will carry over.

As far as the "special actions" in SFO, those were intended (mainly) to supplant the need for tracking speeds across turns. Since the new version of Starmada will retain this need, the SFO actions would be redundant.

1,065

(297 replies, posted in Starmada)

I'm not necessarily opposed to releasing conversion guides before the rules are released -- but I'm not sure they'd be finished until then. sad

1,066

(297 replies, posted in Starmada)

RiflemanIII wrote:

Going back to the whole fighters thing, are fighters still going to be fairly customizable

Yes.

1,067

(297 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

Are there Command and Scout traits for ships?

Tentatively, yes.

1,068

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

Nomad wrote:

Similar question to Stealth - is Fire Control going to continue to exist?

Yes.

1,069

(27 replies, posted in Grand Fleets)

Not just WWII... smile

1,070

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

doesn't tell you if this is a big gun (BOOOM!) or a high rof gun (rat-rat-rat big_smile ).

Those are technical terms, right? smile

1,071

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

Marauder wrote:

Okay sounds good then.  So each shift to the right multiplies the number of dice by 1/root 2?

Yes.

1,072

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

Marauder wrote:

Does it make any sense to have this chart range from say +4 to -6 with the "default at 0" and high lighted so everyone knows not to just jump on the left column?

A net positive modifier is unlikely, except at close range with a single-bank battery. Net modifiers higher than +2 are impossible. The list goes out to -11 in order to accommodate starting attack dice strengths of up to 31.

1,073

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

Marauder wrote:

How is range going to work this time?  I see you have the 3 range bands listed - is it going to be 1 shift to the right for medium and 2 shifts for long range?

+1 for short range, -1 for long.

Is "stealth" going to be in the game anymore, or has that (and countermeasures I assume) going to be both be reflected by the ECM defense?

Although it has a similar effect, Stealth is actually separate from ECM, for a couple of reasons:

1) ECM will degrade with damage; Stealth will not.

2) ECM can be used in an "offensive" capacity (with an optional rule); Stealth cannot.

1,074

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

I agree, IMP and DMG could have been lmerged without losing that feeling. But a high ROF weapon is very different from a high DMG weapon. A weapon with VAR DMG means usually an alien weapon, or an unstable one, or whatever, but it give a unique feeling to that weapon. Etc.

ROF and DMG are no longer separate stats -- however, with the available traits, you will still be able to simulate high-ROF vs. high-DMG weapons.

1,075

(76 replies, posted in Starmada)

If you're asking whether all of the flexibility in weapons design from SAE will remain in the new edition, the answer is probably "no". I think it should be fairly obvious the shift to a somewhat more abstract combat system will result in a certain loss of granularity in weapon design.

On the whole, however, the only real loss is in the ability to distinguish between IMP and DMG -- with weapon traits, you'll still be able to design weapons that are more accurate than others, weapons that do more damage when they hit, and so on. Considering the number of discussions we've had on this forum about "What is the difference between IMP and DMG?" I doubt this is something many people will lament...