151

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

GhengisRexx wrote:

I prefer to keep the number of weapons down to exactly 50% of my hull, so I have less chance of losing one on a hit.

Yea, I do the same thing. If I have to have more, then I try to have them in multiples of HS/2 to get the most weapons for the least vulnerability on the damage track. Kind of hard though in a campaign where you are restricted to pre-designed weapons.

152

(40 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

I'll wait for playtest data before endorsing them wholeheartedly, tho... smile

Lab Rat Class Destroyer of the Test Bed Navy   ( 123 )
Mass: 67.9 KmT, Crew: 270, TL:   E:3  W:3  S:3  Q:3
Hull: 5 4 3 2 1
Engines: 5 4 3 2 1
Shields:  2 1
[α] Torpedo [5/10/15, 3+ 1/1/1]
AB, AB, AB, AB, AB
[β] Laser [3/6/9, 4+ 1/1/1]
AB, AB, AB, AB, AB
Hyperdrive [O], Armor Plating (4)
1[HQ], 2[Eα], 3[Hα], 4[Eβ], 5[Hβ], 6[S]

Experimental Monkey Class Cruiser of the Test Bed Navy   ( 128 )
Mass: 122 KmT, Crew: 450, TL:   E:3  W:3  S:3  Q:3
Hull: 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Engines: 5 4 3 2 1
Shields:  2 1
[α] Torpedo [5/10/15, 3+ 1/1/1]
AB, AB, AB, AB, AB
[β] Laser [3/6/9, 4+ 1/1/1]
AB, AB, AB, AB, AB
Hyperdrive [O], Armor Plating (2)
1[Hα], 2[Eβ], 3[H], 4[S], 5[H], 6[Q]

Investigational Mouse Class Battleship of the Test Bed Navy   ( 133 )
Mass: 209.7 KmT, Crew: 705, TL:   E:3  W:3  S:3  Q:3
Hull: 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Engines: 5 4 3 2 1
Shields:  2 1
[α] Torpedo [5/10/15, 3+ 1/1/1]
AB, AB, AB, AB, AB
[β] Laser [3/6/9, 4+ 1/1/1]
AB, AB, AB, AB, AB
Hyperdrive [O]
1[Hα], 2[Eβ], 3[H], 4[S], 5[H], 6[Q]

Using the generational armor the three above classes have a statistical base chance of taking 30 internal hits before being destroyed.
Lab Rat DD 30 hits = 15 H hits; armor plating (4) should stop 4 in 6 resulting in 5 actual H hits.
Monkey CA 30 hits = 15 H hits; armor plating (2) should stop 2 in 6 resulting in 10 actual H hits
Mouse BB 30 hits = 15 H hits; no armor resulting in 15 actual H hits.

Statistically the smaller Lab Rat is more fragile (as it should be) due to higher instances of weapon and engine hits on the damage track. This should be compensated for by the larger ships taking additional H hits as their E, S, a, b and Q hits are resolved leaving additional hits of these categories to fall on H.

Three of us are going to play three battles tonight, each battle we will switch off which ship design we will each fly.

153

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

GhengisRexx wrote:

Having 1/1/1 weapons is fine, but from a design standpoint, one might want to limit the number of weapons to reduce the number of a b or c  hits on the damage chart.

With this algorithm, 1 x 3/1/1 weapon will cost the same as 3 x 1/1/1 weapon. The ship with the higher number of weapons will be more survivable and there is no incentive to ever build anything but ROF 1 weapons. Here is a look:

Scenario 1
Given two 10 HS ships, one (Ship A) armed with 5 x 2/1/1 weapons and one (Ship B) armed with 10 x 1/1/1 weapons. They will have the same ORat and ComRat with the [ R*(P+1)*(D+1)/2 ] formula. Both (assuming no armor or shields) will statistically take 20 hits to destroy. Ship A with fewer weapons will have 1 weapon on the damage chart (1 in 6 hits will destroy a weapon) while ship B, with two times as many weapons, will have 2 weapons on the damage chart (2 in 6 hits will destroy a weapon). If both ships take 18 points of damage, ship A loses 3 weapons and ship B should lose 6 weapons. They should still have the same firepower.

Scenario 2
Given two 10 HS ships, one (Ship A) armed with 2 x 2/3/3 weapons and one (Ship B) armed with 4 x 1/3/3 weapons with the defenses as above (i.e. none). Again they will have the same ORat and ComRat with the [ R*(P+1)*(D+1)/2 ] formula. Now however, both only have one weapon on the damage track (1 in 6 chance of a weapon hit). After only twelve hits, Ship A is weaponless while ship B will still have two weapons.

All of this is assuming an even spread of dice rolls (which never seems to happen in the real world). But it seems to me that at best high ROF weapons have parity with ROF 1 weapons and in some situations, are less survivable. They are both equally effective against fighters but you have a better chance of keeping some ROF 1 weapons to shoot back with using this algorithm. This makes ROF 1 weapons superior to high ROF weapons and eliminates the reason to ever build high ROF weapons ever again.

154

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

Taltos wrote:

Try Long-Range Sensors on a ship with Stealth Generator.  :wink:

I just do not see Stealth Generators and Long-Range Sensors as an unbalanced combo. Powerful yes, unbalanced no. If your opponent consistently uses this combo, simply save the 15% mass he will spend on the two for extra speed. Now you will control the range. Bring several smaller, faster ships and you can swarm him under. Even if he goes for small fast ships, that 15% wasted on Stealth and LRS is going to allow you a speed advantage. At the extreme, on say a size 1 ship you can pack in up to 5 extra engines for the mass of Stealth and LRS. Even on the larger hull sizes you will get an extra point or two of speed.

155

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

GhengisRexx wrote:

I'd love to see what experienced players use for house rules.

Well, its not really a house rule but in my group we don't use expendable weapons. They are an optional rule anyway so after seeing how they can be easily abused, we just don't use 'em.

156

(40 replies, posted in Starmada)

I started looking into the generational defenses after noticing how hard it was to increase the DRat of a ship. There are tons of offensive equipment and weaponry add ons but not too many defensive.

157

(40 replies, posted in Starmada)

Note that the generational armor has 5 levels while the generational ECM and EWS have only 4 levels due to imaginary numbers cropping up in either the SU or DRat calculations for a 5th level.

So Armor ( X ) has the following:

LVL     SU     ORat     DRat     Hit?  Blocks H hits on
1        2%      -          x1.2     No      6+
2        5%      -          x1.5     No      5+
3       10%      -          x2       No      4+
4       20%      -          x3       No      3+
5       50%      -          x6       No      2+

ECM ( X )
LVL     SU     ORat     DRat     Hit?  To-Hit
1        5%      -          x1.5     Yes     -1
2       10%      -          x2       Yes     -2
3       20%      -          x3       Yes     -3
4       50%      -          x6       Yes     -4

EWS ( X )
LVL     SU     ORat     DRat     Hit?  To-Hit
1        5%      -          x1.2     Yes     +1
2       10%      -         x1.5     Yes     +2
3       20%      -          x2       Yes     +3
4       50%      -          x3       Yes     +4

158

(40 replies, posted in Starmada)

Electronic Warfare System ( X )

The electronic warfare system (EWS) represents a suite of sensor equipment that can counteract many obstacles to obtaining a firing solution. A starship equipped with EWS (X ) may ignore negative modifiers to each of its to-hit rolls up to X, except for the modifier for long range.

This means for example that a ship with EWS ( X ) may ignore X levels of a target's ECM ( X ), the penalty for attacking a target with a failed cloak, or any other to-hit penalties totaling X or less. For example: A starship equipped with EWS ( 2 ) may negate up to 2 to-hit negatives when firing on an opponent equipped with ECM ( 3 ), resulting in a total to-hit modifier of -1.

SU Cost: + (10 x ( 6 / ( 5 – X ) – 1 )%
ORat: -
DRat: x (6 / ( 6 – X ))
Hit?: Yes

Note: The current Electronic Warfare System is equivalent to Electronic Warfare System (1) which gives:

SU Cost: + (10 x ( 6 / ( 5 – 1 ) – 1 )% or +5%
ORat: -
Drat: x (6 / ( 6 – 1 )) or x1.2
Hit?: Yes

This is consistent with the current rules.

159

(40 replies, posted in Starmada)

We are playtesting the above two generational equiment pieces in our group. The highest levels of the two take up like 50% of the ship so I cannot see anyone actually using them.

160

(40 replies, posted in Starmada)

Electronic Countermeasures ( X )

Although all starships have electronics on board, some have been given very sophisticated jamming equipment; this is referred to as electronic countermeasures ( X ) or ECM ( X ).  Any ship that attacks a target equipped with ECM ( X ) must subtract X from its to-hit rolls.

Fighter attacks are unaffected by ECM ( X ).

SU Cost: + (10 x ( 6 / ( 5 – X ) – 1 )%
ORat: -
DRat: x (6 / ( 5 – X ))
Hit?: Yes

Note: The current Electronic Countermeasures is equivalent to Electronic Countermeasures (1) which gives:

SU Cost: + ( 10 x ( 6 / ( 5 – 1 ) – 1 )% or +5%
ORat: -
Drat: x ( 6 / ( 5 – 1 )) or x1.5
Hit?: Yes

This is consistent with the current rules.

161

(40 replies, posted in Starmada)

Armor Plating ( X )

As a low-cost, low-tech alternative for increasing the staying power of a starship, several developers have opted for extra layers of reinforced material to protect their designs from harm.

Whenever a ship with armor plating ( X ) takes a hull hit, roll a dice: if the result is  ( 7 – X ) or higher, the hit has no effect on the hull.

SU Cost: + (10 x ( 6 / ( 6 – X ) – 1 )%
ORat: -
Drat: x ( 6 / ( 6 – X ))
Hit?: No

Note: The current Armor Plating is equivalent to Armor Plating (2) which gives:

SU Cost: + (10 x ( 6 / ( 6 – 2 ) – 1 )% or +5%
ORat: -
Drat: x (6 / ( 6 – 2 )) or x1.5
Hit?: No

This is consistent with the current rules.

162

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

So the basic DRat calculation is HS x 2 x ( 6 /  ( 6 – Shield ) ). Is the 2 in the equation due to the fact that ships only take a hull hit on a 1, 3 or 5 (50% chance)? If that is the case, if a ship only took hull hits on say 2 and 5 would that number be changed to 3 [HS x 3 x ( 6 /  ( 6 – Shield ) )]? Or if it took hits on a 1, 3, 4, and 6 would it have a value of 1.5 there?
Maybe a new hull strengthening equipment could be added to adjust this number? Or a unique race might have harder or weaker hulls  and could adjust this number? Just peering into all of the formulas.

163

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

Several options are out there:

1) Leave it.

2) Change it to R*(P+.5)*(D+.5)

3) Change it to R*(P+1)*(D+1)/2

4) Change it to R*P*D (i.e., all three variables are equal weight)

Of these three options, I prefer the original, option #1. With the other two options it costs the same for 3x 1/1/1 weapons as it does for 1x 3/1/1 weapon. I'll have the same number of shots but it will take more hits to kill me and I'll never build anything but ROF 1 weapons ever again. In my opinion, it isn't broken. With the current algorithm of (ROF+1) x P x D you can get a discount for high ROF but the trade off is, you are easier to kill.

164

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

wombatzoner wrote:

Out of curiosity, is there a ship construction spreadsheet out there that handles fractional rates of fire (1/2 and 1/3)?

The SXCA that we use for our campaign does allow the use of fractional ROF. It uses the standard calculations, not the new ones proposed in the ROF thread. The SXCA is in the files section of the Yahoo MJXII group.
Starmada X/SXCA.

165

(9 replies, posted in Starmada)

So I was thinking about the concept of customizable spinal mounts and came to the following conclusion. Hasn't Dan already provided most of the mathematical tools to mod the spinal mounts? We already know how to calculate the SU and ORat of weapons based on their Range, To-Hit, ROF, PEN and DMG. Can't we just apply those to the spinal mount calculations to derive say a spinal mount that hits on a 4+ and has a PEN of 2?

The basic spinal mounts assume a range based on the size of the mounting hull. Can't we really change it to any range, as long as we modify the SU and ORat by a similar amount? The same with To-hit, ROF, PEN and DMG.

For example: To get a spinal mount that hits on a 4+ just divide the stock spinal mount SU by 0.67 and multiply it by 0.5 then divide the stock ORat by the old SU and multiply it by the new SU. Voila, a spinal that hits on a 4+

PEN and DMG are even easier because the stock spinal assumes that they are 1 (well, DMG is 1x HS). So to get higher PEN and DMG simply multiply the stock SU by the new PEN and/or DMG and as above divide the stock ORat by the old SU and multiply it by the new SU. Keep in mind that a HS 10 ship with a DMG 2 spinal mount would actually be doing 20 points of damage, at least until it took some internals.

ROF is trickier because all other weapons use ROF+1 in their calculations. So for a spinal mount to have a ROF of say 2, divide the stock SU by 2 and multiply it by ( new ROF+1 ). Again as above, divide the stock ORat by the old SU and multiply it by the new SU.

About Range though, I am not sure what to do. Range is already factored into the stock spinal mount's ORat but not the SU. Anyone have any ideas?

Does anyone see any glaring mathematic or balance issues with any of this?

166

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

wombatzoner wrote:

One option might be to require the ship carrying the equipment to have a number of ECM equipment boxes equal to the number of ships it's covering (including itself) multiplied by the range to the farthest ship it is covering.

I like this, it is simple and elegant. Of course each installation of ECM is 5% of the ships SU so one obvious work around is to put them ion the smaller hulls so they use less of your total SU.

167

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

Well, the thought was to add an electronics warfare platform to the game (similar to special sensors in SFB) that can provide electronic warfare above what the covering ship could generate. If the enemy is pounding your flagship, the scout/jammer/whatever platform could throw up a wall of electronic support. Of course your opponent will then make killing the scout/jammer/whatever unit a priority.
So if a ship mounted ECM the scout/jammer/thingy could still loan it another -1 to be hit.

168

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

So, I would think the point cost would have to take into account the value of the group as a whole.

How about tying the effectiveness of the system to the size of the vessel that it is mounted on? Say it can only loan ECM to a number of hull points of ships equal to its own hull size (or some other such number). That way you can kind of ball park the number and strength of ships receiving the benefit. It makes sense especially if the Jammer's SU is based off of a percentage of the mounting ship's SU. A jammer mounted on a HS 10 (1900 SU) ship should be more powerful than a jammer mounted on a HS 5 (700 SU) ship. Then the jammer mounted on the 10 HS ship can provide a -1 to-be-hit mod for a total of 10 HS (or whatever) of other ships.

169

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

Has anyone ever given thought to adding a Special Equipment item that functions as ECM but can be loaned to other ships? Sort of like a jammer. How would this be pointed and what kind of strengths/weaknesses would you suggest?

170

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

jwhsu wrote:

I have been playing around with the idea of treating fighters like a battery (separate ToHit/ROF/PEN/DAM, etc.). It would add considerable flexibility in fighter design without adding too much more complexity.

I would be interested. I've played around myself with the idea of customizable Fighters, Drones, Battlesats, marine boarding parties and Mines. It would be cool to have control over the small craft-like components of the game as with the weapons.

171

(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

BeowulfJB wrote:

Hello everyone,
It seems that there will not be any Starmada games run there.

Bummer, and I was getting my fleets ready.

172

(60 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

It depends on what you mean by "resolve" -- I assume we're not trying to eliminate the fact that three 1/1/1 weapons are more useful than a single 3/1/1 weapon... but we are trying to increase the point cost of the former when compared to the latter.

I see and I agree.

cricket wrote:

Adding the number of weapons into the defensive rating would achieve this effect.
Whether or not this "balances" the designs remains to be seen...

Would this "fix" change the current weapon SU calculation? I am having a hard time wading through all of the proposals posted in this thread. Until you say "go", I'll continue to use the formula as in the rules.

173

(60 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

Now, Starmada X was the first time that the number of weapons was not included in the defensive rating (e.g., in the past, it was (Hull + # of Weapons) x Shield Factor). IMHO, putting this back into the formula would be a better solution than complicating the weapon calculation.

This still doesn't resolve the basic problem. Three 1/1/3 weapons give you the same chances of damaging another ship as three 3/1/1 but the three 3/1/1 are a hell of a lot better vs. small units  (and a use a lot less SU too). Maybe the DRat needs to somehow take into account the ROF not just total number of weapons.

174

(60 replies, posted in Starmada)

Nahuris wrote:

I'd love to see a mod that can be added to a weapon... 
Anti-fighter: normal to hit vs. fighters, but -1 vs. capital ships,
or even -1 to capital ships, and must re-roll penetration.
John

How would you define a cap ship, or are you just saying a -1 to shoot at all starships with a +1 to shoot at small units (fighters, drones, battlesats, mines, boarding pods)?

175

(55 replies, posted in Starmada)

Repost from the Spinal Light/Heavy Thread:

For a game that allows such great customization of ships and the designing of weapons like Starmada X does, I was surprised that the spinal mount (and battlesats, fighters, marine squads, drones) are such a "here you go" type. I think it would be cool to be able to adjust all of the stats to suit the mileu's needs. If I want a spinal mount that hits on a 3+ and has a PEN of 2, what do I do? Just like I think I should be able to have a figher that is speed 15 has an ROF of 3 and hits on a 3+ or a battlesat that is speed 10, or a drone speed 6 but a DMG of 3, etc..