Taking things newest to oldest:
cricket wrote:
Noel seemed to think it was necessary to describe each system in detail, effectively limiting the largest empires to a dozen or so systems. I had always pictured it as a Star Wars type thing, with vast galaxy-spanning territories of indeterminite size and hundreds (thousands?) of inhabited worlds.
Yes, I wanted a stronger feel to things to really understand the contest...
And the Stars Wars universe just bugs me cause everything seems like it is right next to each other and the same worlds get talked about over and over again... there are apparently gobs of them (look at the Senate) and only the same 10 or so ever matter... good for simply story telling but lousy for making me feel like there is meaningful thought there.
Probably why I am a VBAM junkie.
(but at least I don't map all the individual planets in each system... or all the other possible painful detail.)
I think that there's a way to have your cake and eat it too. Stay with me for a few moments. Once you get a "suffently large" map area, you're going to give up details. Look at any strategic level WW2 game. So you could use providences that have a level of development, economic resources, all that good stuff and then generate a set of statistics from that.
For example you could have a lightly populated sector that'd make logistics harder while at the same time making it easier to hide fleets. This would make stronger use of the encounter table to drive results, but would also allow for a fleet in being strategy, you find a few sectors that make detection harder and then use hit and run attacks on their infrastructure.
However it'd abstract the "operational art" i.e. the kewl shizzel that I love in a game. Not saying it wouldn't be interesting and might be the only way to operate a Really Big Game (TM). If there's one thing worse than counter overload, I don't know what it is. Then again you're talking to someone who doesn't nessarly think that 3d STRATEGIC games are impossible.
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2) FTL drive nature, as far as I can tell the only rules that we've seen are in the jumping out rules. Given the Imperium/Federation war background, it has to be hard to force a decisive battle.
I think this means that the concept of jump point assaults is out.
So a jump lane system might be out too.
Not necessarily. The hyperspace engines detailed in Starmada may be of limited range, allowing ships to get away from battle but still need jump lanes/points to get across vast distances.
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3) Logistics, this could help explain why the Federation was able to play their game for as long as they could. I remember when the first Sovereign Stars demo came out and it seems really explicit what the Federation Adm. did, cut a supply depot and skyrocketed the logistics cost.
On a side/related note, I still plan on reintroducing SovStars, and it will be much closer to the first edition than the second edition TI supplement.
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As an aside, I think VBAM is great, it's the right "here is your empire, have a nice day" rule set that feels epic, but the more complicated rules seem to go into to much detail and can be frustrating when you want the bigger picture.
Exactly why I think there's room for a more abstracted game like SovStars...
Limited range jump drive brings up the same question that Battletech never really answered for me. If you can only jump 30 ly per jump, why not just jump into deep space, keep doing that until you get to the other guy's capital and waste it?
I'm happy that SovStars is comming back, but I think that if you're going to remove that much detail, the idea of really looking at each planet is a bit myopic. It might be more useful to just say that there are different types of sectors that you can develop. You can give sectors critital spots that you can fight over, or even "build" an important planet. I think that'd work.
However a more militant/operational game would need a harder focus.
Kodiak wrote:
Taltos,
That's part of what I'm trying to figure out too. I see some possiblities with the Expanse comming for humanity, the Dragons showing up, or even an Alliance civil war or something happening in the Commonwealth between the Imperium and the Federation. In putting that together, I'm looking for several bits of info:
1) size of the empires, are we talking about a few star systems, or many many star systems?
Now that is a question that needs time.
I remember discussing this with King Dan in the past and the idea was for a the Imperium to be a far flung expanse. The Arcturan Federation is supposed to be based at Arcturus (Alpha Bootis), right? While that isn't "right next door", it isn't too far. Still...
Which systems are settled, which explored, which sentried?
Arcturus is only 36 ly from Sol. It depends on how far you can jump, that might be right next door. It'd also give a very narrow Commonwealth area if Earth is to have any depth at all for defenses. Fleet in being strategy works when you have someplace you can be.
Kodiak wrote:
2) FTL drive nature, as far as I can tell the only rules that we've seen are in the jumping out rules. Given the Imperium/Federation war background, it has to be hard to force a decisive battle.
I think this means that the concept of jump point assaults is out.
So a jump lane system might be out too.
Maybe, maybe not.
Depending upon the official nature of Starmada jump engines... a "lane" may simply represent a possible corridor for a single campaign turn's jump range.
from that...
Kodiak wrote:
3) Logistics, this could help explain why the Federation was able to play their game for as long as they could. I remember when the first Sovereign Stars demo came out and it seems really explicit what the Federation Adm. did, cut a supply depot and skyrocketed the logistics cost.
You could get an option for laying in modified (more stringent) supply rules so that with cut jump lanes and you get exactly the effect implied in the history.
I agree that the idea of a lane might be a mapping convention, it might just be that I'm more of a open space kind of guy, but if we did assume that that it represented just the amount you could jump in a turn, I think that you'd need to keep cutting the jump lane every turn, otherwise it should "grow back"
Hope that's not too confusing.
-K