1

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

Marauder wrote:

Yes, I saw those.  They are pretty good.  We're going with slightly larger ships so our average imperial cruiser will be weighing in at about 250pts with a size class of 12 (50% more than the BFG hull points).

In BFG the torps are launched from a specific hardpoint.  They are placed on the base of the mini and must be pointed in a direction limited by the weapon arc of the launcher.  The number of torps is based on the rating of the launcher (which in no way interacts with any of the carrier functions of the ship). They then (in the appropriate phase) move in a straight line at their speed.  If they cross over the base of another ship they attack it.  As they are actually on the table they can be fired at by the appropriate ship board weapons as well as engaged by fighters.  If they don't hit anything on the first turn they keep moving until they hit something or go off the table.

I'm not obsessed with trying to model that behaviour exactly.  Seekers definitely are the better fit than direct fire, its just there is a little problem with being able to launch 3 flights a turn off of a cruiser sized ship using the seeker rules as is.  Limiting the arch of fire would be great too.

Really what I want is very similar to plasma torps as in Romulan Armada.  Just add in an ammo component and remove the direct fire mode and tah-dah, missile launcher.

These are exactly the reasons I made torps direct fire in my conversion. It also keeps book-keeping down and the playing field less cluttered.

If I would model them as seekers I would probably design them with the starmada rules but limit them to an arc, launch limit and only forward and sidestep movement and reduce their costs by 1/2, 3/5 or 2/3. This will need some playtesting. Now that I'm thinking about it I like the idea.

2

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

Modable rules: Starmada has certainly one of the most if not the most flexible design system. Although the worth of a ship is quite accurately calculated there are certain combinations of traits that are hard to beat. The design system at its core gives you all the freedom to build ships for specific backgrounds but when pitting scratchbuild fleet against each other you might want to limit some stuff if you have a powergamer in your group. A good bit of terrain (planets, asteroids) and random scenarios can even out the odds.
That said if you are looking for ship duels (which I suppose you don't) Starmada is not the best option. About 6 ships per side and maybe some small ones or fighter flights is what I would call a standard battle. This largely depends on the ships size you design however. I for myself prefer large battles and Starmada's rules are streamlined well for such battles.

Scenarios: As a generic system it has generic scenarios but one can imagine most of the premises of the scenarios to happen in any background. Although forces have different strength sometimes the victory conditions make all scenarios fair. This is something I really appreciate. Many games have problems when it comes to balancing. But I found every Starmada scenario to be fair and they add strategical depth unless of course you tailor-build a fleet for it. But as you can easily randomize them it adds another layer of thought for the fleet designer. Overgunned slow ships with long range may be good in direct confrontation but outgunned or with the enemy starting close by these ships will get butchered.

Learning Curve: The basics are very easy. The movement system of the new edition needs some time to getting used to. I prefer the more simple old one, which is included in the rulebook as an optional rule. When playing I have to flip through the rulebook occasionally to re-read what a special ability does but when played frequently you wont need the rulebook. There are a lot of optional rules to add some element or flesh out an aspect if you like. Some add quite a bit of depth to the game but makes it also a bit more complex.

So much for the pros. The only con in my book is that you have to roll lots of dice. Rules wise this is good because luck more or less evens out with more dice instead of only a couple of rolls per game.

Ready to play vassal? Yes. But I don't have the ship data for Starmada AE of the original imperial starmada setting. I would rather play Klingon or Romulan Armada or some other setting or scratchbuild ships.

MadSeason wrote:

To create a properties sheet with the stats already on it is easy. In vassal, edit the unit, add a properties sheet and use the Label Only line in the properties sheet. Enter the stats for Drones, or plasma types. You can do several lines of this, if you need to.  I just whipped this up quickly in Vassal to show you what it would look like when you called up the properties sheet.

Cool, I will try this, although I already found a good way. I simply added a reference table like the ones for movement and to hit modifiers. So you can open it and have all Drone and Plasma stats ready in one place during their phase.

I added some explosion effects and a new map, still having a hard time finding good ship images...

OldnGrey wrote:

Nice!

In the Starmada Vassal mod flights can turn (rotate) with ctrl-R or ctrl-L so long as they have the "Can Rotate".

When adding a new type do not forget to give them one of the game piece prototype definitions. I find it easier to copy an existing fighter or striker and just change the name and graphic.

Just a suggestion,straighten the plasma graphic, lengthen the tail slightly. Add the plasma typr "R", "S" etc below.
You could enlarge the plasma graphic just enough to put the size in the middle and have a layer for each size so that you can change it if any hits are taken.
Also handy if you do each type on it's own, that way you can ensure that the max size is correct, for example, plasma D would only have two layers.

Paul

Thanks!

Yes rotation is not included in the Striker Flight I think I used as template. I defined a prototypes for the new factions and ships. Maybe it comes in later if I have a "Romulan Ships" Prototype and so on.

I will add it eventually. I had similar ideas for plasmas and it turned out that a number in the middle didn't look good. I think I will leave the target designation below and add a text on top for size and type like: LETTER/SIZE
Or I take the torpedo image and add small size dots on top not interfering with the image.

Had some time yesterday and found out doing what I want to do with ordnance is easier than I thought. Here is a (staged) shot of drones and a plasma torpedo:

[attachment=1]plasma.jpg[/attachment]

The first thing I noticed in this screenshot: I have to change the map, too :-)

I only know plasma's from the Strafleet Command PC game where they are greenish sizzeling balls of... well plasma. So I settled for green. I could color code them for different types but I guess this wouldn't do much. The drones pics are borrowed from one of OldnGrey's unofficial source books. Flights cannot turn so they all look like flying up. I will change that so screenshots will look better :-)

Here is the original image I found with a google search for photon torpedo (plasma torpedo didn't found any good images):

[attachment=0]thumbnail.jpeg[/attachment]

Blacklancer99 wrote:

Great AAR!
How many trek ships have you get into Vassal? I know there are places to get the counters, but I never seem to have the time  :cry:
Keep the good stuff coming!
Erik

I have almost all Klingons and Feds (from KA) with models and Starmada statted cloneable ships in a savegame to set up games easily. Their ships are easy to find in good quality and with real top down views. The other races are quite difficult. I can find pics of the ships but they don't look pretty mostly and are not full top down. Two or three Romulans, Kzinti and Lyrons are also in but I wait till I have integrated more hulls before assigning stats. As I noticed you play vassal zoomed out most of the time anyways so 3 counters for DNs, CAs and FRs will usually do, although it is cool to be able to distinguish a Heavy and a Strike CA by slight graphical details alone. Also found several good top downs of TNG ships for future use.

I also plan to change more than just the ships. Explosion, drone and battle debris graphics will also be changed. Found a picture of a crippled Fed ship (from TNG Wolf 359, but it's so damaged you won't see the difference) which adds a nice touch to maps. There is also a red alert picture but don't know how I can make use of that. Maybe a house rule with alert levels...

Btw. does anyone know how you can add a properties window to seekers flights so I can have premade drones and all plasmas with stats. I always have to look them up in the rules otherwise.

Finally got Vassal ready to represent Klingon Armada with style. Here is report from my first KA battle

Prebattle:

During the Klingon invasion of Federation space a klingon squadron on a search and destroy mission found a single federation vessel patrolling the Deirna system. As the squadron entered the system outskirts the klingon captains couldn't believe their sensor readings. A single dreadnought without any escorts nearby. This would be a truly worthy target.

Klingons (Attacker):
1x D7C Command Cruiser "Kotenna"
3x D7 Heavy Cruiser "Fek'Tohr", "Rotenn", "Keltak"

As word about the klingon invasion reaches Deirna captain Galov of the USS Union began to resupply his stocks at Deirna before departing for one of the fleet staging zones. But it was already too late, the sensors picked up four enemy cruisers inbound and instead of forming a fleet he was forced to sent a distress call to nearby federation vessels. The fast patrol force of captain Irner was in the vicinity and immediately changed course.

Federation (Defender):
1x Dreadnought "USS Union"
Reinforcements:
1x Fast Cruiser "USS Avenger"
2x Frigate "USS Tiernan", "USS Ouinville"

[attachment=0]klisquad.jpg[/attachment]

Sceanrio: To the Rescue

Turn 1
USS Union leaves orbit and heads for the asteroid field but the klingon squadron closes fast to score a quick kill. Union's shields deflect the massed disruptor fire however and a volley of torpedoes strikes the D7C in return causing heavy hull damage and reducing shields significantly. Maybe this lonely dreadnought won't be the easy prey after all. With reduced engine power which will make turning difficult next turn and failing shields the Kotenna launches 3 drone flights to force the DN to move away.

Turn 2
Despite being up against 12 drones and 4 Heavy Cruisers all on his own Galov turns his vessel around to bring his wepons and strong forward shield to bear, this ship won't go down without a fight. The klingon formation breaks up to the flanks while the Kotenna, due to engine damage advances straight ahead, her captain too arrogant to order evasive maneuvers.

Anti-Drones are lanuched and the onslaught on Unions frontal shield disperses almost harmlessly as a full spread of Unions torpedoes tear through Kotenna's weakened shields and hull literally ripping the ship apart.

Suddenly the tide of battle changed. The klingons lost their command ship in a 4:1 advantage and sensors are also picking up incoming federation vessels (still double VP for the D7C). The klingons try to maintain their formation and strategy and launch a drone flight each on Union while the DN launches one flight at each cruiser to further disperse their formation so the DN will not be surrounded too quickly.

Klingon VP: 0/800
Fed VP: 636/800 (D7C counted twice as per scenario rules)

Turn 3
In order to buy time for the reinforcements to enter weapons range USS Union cuts down speed and initiates evasive maneuvers. The klingons, still shocked also slow down and both flanking D7's Fek'Tohr and Keltak begin evasive maneuvers in fear of getting caught in too much long range fire. They know that they have too retreat with another loss and want to destroy the DN at least.

The evasive vessels remain mostly unharmed by weapon's fire and drones. Unions shields are getting dangerously weak though and a lucky Disruptor volley causes USS Ouinvilles sforward shields to collapse. Federation fire concentrates on the the klingon who doesn't evade and although the Rotenn's shields and hull remain unscathed nearly half of the ship's weapons are stripped in surface hits.

The klingons will have to have the full close range power of federation's phasers next turn and launch all their remaining drones. Interestingly the federation thinks the same with overloaded dsiruptors and also launches all drones to be able to form a formation and get USS Union out of the fray. Klingon drones target Union to finish it for good while federation drones spread out towards all three enemies.

Klingon VP: 0/800
Fed VP: 636/800

[attachment=1]end of turn3.jpg[/attachment]

Turn 4
The klingons try to maneuver Rotenn out of the danger zone while flanking with Fek'Tohr and Keltak. USS Union tries to break out by going to full impulse. The reinforcements should be sufficient enough to finish the klingons.

As drones home in the battlefield lights up under constant explosions. Union is hit by a massive wave of 36 drones from three sides and.. survives. Shields are down, engine power halved and hull breaches will be critical but most weapons are still online. There is no mistake now that USS Union will go down this turn but at least ithe ship goes down with phasers blazing. Federation drones are not as devastating but two drones manage to hit the escaping Rotenn and strip even more weapons from the beaten hull. Only Phaser-2's are left. Keltak also looses important weapon systems. Therefore both ships cannot deal more than minor damage. The Fek'Tohr is still fully battle ready and fires all overloaded disruptors on the escaping Union while mauling the centerlined USS Tiernan with heavy phaser fire.

With deadly blasts pounding their shields Union and Tiernan concentrate fire on Rotenn and manage to destroy the ship with the last overloaded torpedo. As explosions ripple through the destroyed Union and Rotenn it is clear than the klingons lost. But USS Avenger still has to earn her name and opens up an alpha strike of phasers and torpedoes on Keltrak, consuming the previously only lightly damaged vessel in a firestorm.

[attachment=2]end of turn4.jpg[/attachment]

klingon VP: 579
Federation VP: 1200

Although a decisive federation victory the loss of USS Union makes it bittersweet. From initially four cruisers only the Fek'Tohr made it back to klingon lines relatively unharmed.

9

(44 replies, posted in Starmada)

Alex Knight wrote:

Is it 100% accurate? No. Is it within 1-2% of accurate? If my calcs are correct, yes.

It'll do I guess. The more I think about it, the more I like optional mounts for ship design in general. Reduced to only some options of an overall larger arsenal on a ship it should be a nice way to customize fleets beyond the usual fleet composition strategies.

Another problem with optional mounts is the data sheet. The options could be displayed on one half of the page with checkboxes and the ship on the other. The weapon track has to be generated somehow as well or the amount of weapons will always be the same so the track stays the same.

10

(44 replies, posted in Starmada)

Alex Knight wrote:

Are option mounts really that hard to do? (In hindsight, yeah I think so.)
I mean, yeah, okay because the math is entirely tied to DRAT which is based on hull and shields, *buuut* I'm sure that something managable can be hammered out.

Now I don't know the source material but isn't it possible to calculate all costs in advance. So vessel A has a base CR and a table in the book that states the stats for possible weapons it can use and their value (for each given ship). So Weapon A will cost 20 CR for vessel A and 25 CR for vessel B and so on based on each vessel's DRAT. The sheer amount of customization will very likely be toned down a bit, but it is very easy for the players to just take a ship and some weapon options and simply add the CR together.

Yes you are correct. I had Hyperdrives in my template so it has been added to every ship. Never thought about it. I will put it on the list of things to change.

Thanks,

my goal with Starmada conversions is always to simplify the source material as most combat systems don't handle large fleets too well. So my BFG fleets can be rather large without bogging the game down too much. I had teleporters and such in an earlier version but skipped them because of that. Maybe I will write a special rule for boarding similar to sailing ship boarding in style. Target has to be adjacent and sufficiently damaged and ships then become entangled while boarding or only a raid is happening.
Fighters are also a constant problem of mine. I switched between strikers and flights and although I have individual stats for them I would like to simplify them further. I will look into that when/if I do other races.

As of now movement seems to be really important with these conversions. You have to keep fighters away and short range broadsides are devastating due to the low shield values. Battles are mostly skirmishes at long range (I also use lots of terrain) then it ends up with very brutal close range firefights and it is never obvious who will win until the last moment. Really like it this way.

Btw, up for a game with Vassal?

Hi,

here are my Battlefleet Gothic conversations. So far I have done and tested the bulk of Imperial and Chaos ships and designed flights for all races.

I noticed there are already conversations but more ships are always better I guess.

Feedback welcome :-)

14

(23 replies, posted in Starmada)

There is a very nice method of balancing things out in nearly every tabletop game you play. Tip came from an old White Dwarf issue I think regarding terrain: One player sets-up all the terrain then the other player chooses on which side of the table he wants to deploy his forces.

This method can also be extended to the forces itself. One player designs the forces and the other players choose first (roll dice to determine the order among them) after giving them some time to analyse the ships. The designed forces have to be sufficiently different. If this is still not working try to restrict key features for each faction. Faction A only builds hulls <6, Faction B cannot have Shields >3, Faction C uses only weapons with ranges <=12, Faction D has all Tech Levels -1 and so on.

If the factions are fun the designer may modify his creations for the next battle to adress weaknesses and no player may choose the same faction twice in a row. This technique can even create a healthy metagame where your pick is based on the picks other players took before you.

@EDIT: Another method often used with imbalanced scenarios in wargames is paired games: Players agree to always play two games, the second one with switched sides. In this way minmaxers have no choice but to be beaten by their own minmaxed fleet and will hopefully design balanced ships.

15

(11 replies, posted in Starmada)

I've done Star Wars conversions for an earlier Starmada Version (X I think) based on a spreadsheet which converted canon data into approximate SX values. I think I still have the sheet and old conversions somewhere if anyone is interested. But beware, the conversion file was rather messy and WIP.

The focus on the conversion was on squadron/fleet battles and with squadrons I mean at least a squadron (4) of Star Destroyers so the ships were all a bit smaller and not up to Hull 20 afaik... well there is always a Super Star Destroyer for that...

16

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

You're playing via Vassal right? So I guess a "screenshots or it didn't happen" is in order ;-)

17

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

Same here as MadSeason. I remember some hexmaps where all halfhexes are blacked/greyed out. As long as the map in use displays terrain (ground/space) it is a valid hex I guess.

18

(29 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

Whatever the rule is for stations, it should be consistent with the rules for starships -- which is why I realized there's a problem, what with the movement rules allowing free spins for any ship that has zero speed.

I see but the rules regarding engine rating cut in half when moving and weapon rerolls are also exceptions. Free spin would be constant so basically a "no-brainer" during the movement phase. Whether or not this uses actual engine rating my concern is that the station may chance facing at will or stop due to damage.
I believe constantly spinning one hexside every turn or remaining completely stationary is the thing everyone expects from sci-fi space stations. On the other hand I know that Starmada is and always have been about flexibility.

19

(29 replies, posted in Starmada)

I wouldn't tie spinning movement to engine rating. A space station that is spinning for reasons of artificial gravity for example doesn't need constant thrust and wouldn't stop spinning or change direction. Under the proposed rules a station would stop to spin when the engine rating is reduced to zero by damage. This woul render some narrow arc weapons effectively useless.

I think stations should have a engine rating of zero and automatically spin 60° clockwise or not depending on the designers choice. You could introduce this as a ship feature (Spinning Station and Station). This would be even more simple and serves the purpose.

I also think stations are usually known for their toughness and large amount of weapons. The latter is already taken care of with no engines to waste space. In addition to that I would make damage rolls of 1 and 2 essentially meaningless to reflect a structure primarily build to last not to be able to fly around. Well with no engine rating hits on 2 would do nothing anyways but hits on 1 wouldn't cause the usual hull damage (Armor plating effect). The huge amount of weapons you can fit on a no engine hull 10 "ship" for example should be already good enough.
CR wise the loss of movement should cancel out the added durability or you add the armor plating modifiers.

Stations that can move (slowly) as seen in some background material can be ships with a very low engine rating. They will still have more space for weaponry but are essentially slow moving ships.

20

(92 replies, posted in Starmada)

Space stations are build with a different mindset.

1. Think of a tank and a bunker. The tank is build with steel, which is heavy and protective but still light enough to get moved around. A bunker must'nt move, so you can use something more heavy to build and protect it: tons of concrete.

Maybe a different Hull / Space Units table will do. So you get ~10-25% more space for the hull points because you don't have to include all the auxilary systems for space travel and such.

2. As stations are, you now, stationary they usually spin around. This might be necessary to maintain artificial gravity but is also neccessary for defense. Something immobile shouldn't have a weak spot. So killing of all weapons in one section of the station is not a death sentence as the station constantly spins around.

A simple rule that each station moves one hexside clockwise per turn will do I guess.

3. Stationary structures are basically sitting ducks. That's the reason for their blistering array of weapons and strong shields.

Maybe a space station should be easier to hit. If so this should include all weapons and special equipment "weapons" (spinal, etc.).

21

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

Oops wrong subject...