1 Reply by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

thedugan wrote:

I was around back when Car Wars came out, just never got into it, and at the time it didn't look like that great a game. No one I knew played it, or was interested in it.

I've played it with the same 2 friends (and some more occasionally) each sunday afternoon for 3 years.... until we've discovered somewhat more interesting to do with girls lol

thedugan wrote:

TWERPS, on the other hand....


What is "TWERPS"?

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2 Reply by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

Cough!
Seems to me that we're going a bit too far...
I don't know if it is the passion for the game (OT: i like this forum a lot! Passionate players and game designers that discuss about everything! a dream!) or somewhat i have said.... but i don't want that Daniel (Cricket? do you like more to use nicknames or real names?) changes Starmada!
If the game is like it is it have some good reasons for sure.

All what i'm searching for is to find a way that fills my needs, and asking for a bit of help doing things (the probability math) that are a out from my formal school and knowledge.
If i can find a way to roll only one time to solve the attacks, and if that way is liked by more players, that's even better. But really, i can't ask to change a well tested game like Starmada.

Said this, some replies:


underling wrote:

Or...
You all could play with smaller ships with fewer weapons.

We have Silent Death for this. What we was searching for was a game with huge ships and Starmada is one of the answers, and maybe the best.
The whole Silent Death map fit just a Starmada hex. We like this change, and we want that insane amount of cannons for each battery smile



jimbeau wrote:

Finally, you may be coming off of a history of old-school, chart-based gaming (nothing wrong with that) and thus some of Starmada may seem alien to you....

Not really. We have abandoned old "chart-based" games from many years. We are a group of 20-30 players, so we play dungeon-crawl games, RPGs, skirmish games and so on with the same frequency... the "hard-core" players plays Axis and Allies every time, now superseeded by The War of the Ring).  As i've said, we have not so much time to play (3 hours at max) so we have ceased to play some long games (i really miss Car Wars...sigh).
But the long games we still plays must have "short turns": Game of Thrones, Silent Death and many others all falls in the category of long games, but allows fast rounds.

jimbeau wrote:

Come over to my house and we'll play and I can show you how I do it at the conventions. smile

I'd like this.... where you live? smile




cricket wrote:

The table is derived by combining the chance to hit and the chance of penetrating the shields. For example, to-hit 3+ yields a 67% probability, and shields 5 yields a 17% probability, for an  overall 11% chance of causing damage. This is roughly 1 in 6, so on the table if you cross reference to-hit 3+ with shields 5, you get 6+.

Thanks, that's what i've asked for.....

cricket wrote:

Further, it doesn't account for the fact that a 3/1 weapon will act differently than a 1/3.

....and this is what i'm trying to figure out, playing with excel and a lot of math that i don't handle so well.
Have you any table, graph, formula or a Rosetta stone that can show this difference?

Thanks to all for the tips and the whole discussion. Have i said that i like this forum? smile

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3 Reply by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

jimbeau wrote:

I have to ask Parduz, are you rolling all similar weaponry at the same time? i.e. anything from a ship that has the same to hit number can roll all the weapons in the bank at once, no need to split rolls.

More or less.. they have to be from the same battery (X,Y or Z), or, more generally, they need to have the same ACC IMP and DMG, right? If not, there may be issues about what damage have to do that dice (from what weapon it belongs), etc.

jimbeau wrote:

Also, I liked banked weapons too, but I can almost hear the high-pitched scream coming from colorado smile

I think i'm missing somewhat, here :?:

jimbeau wrote:

Is it possible to get the same from a table? yes.  but the issue is that you don't get a good spread of probability with 1 die roll...the more dice you roll, the more like "average" it's gonna be.
I'm not saying that quite right, but I think you get the point.

 
Well. probabilities are somewhat often hard to "figure", but i "feel" that using different die sizes and bonus/malus i can archieve a good aproximation of the original "3-rolls". I may be completly wrong, sure, that's why i asked here for some suggestion. Having a base of veteran players, and the game designer(s) on this forum may lead to a very cooperative work, or at least to an "assisted" one.
That's depends also about how much "Cricket" wants to reveals about the underlying weapons "statistics"... a thing i've forgot to ask  :oops:

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4 Reply by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

We have posted in the almost same moment

jygro wrote:

Even with Dan's table, I'm not sure how you can make it a single roll for everything (and not take away from "starmada").

That's the goal, yes smile

jygro wrote:

Also, the ships in Starmada have a lot more weaponry than those in Silent Death which is again not something you are 'used' to.

That was what we was searching for: a big scale spaceship combat, so we like this. The only problem is that it "multiplies" the "3-rolls downtime" (new word learned, thanks!), but imho the problems arises from the "3-rolls", not from the insane amount of weaponry smile 

jygro wrote:

A roll on that damage die is a
1-3: Hull hit
4: Weapon hit (your choice)
5: Weapon hit (opponent's choice)
6: Shield

Does it lacks for the Engine damage? Anyway i think i got your point.

jygro wrote:

My thought is with Dan's table, try it again and see how it goes.

It seems a good step toward the direction i need, yes.

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5 Reply by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

...one could easily put together a combat chart, cross-referencing the number to-hit with the target's shield rating:

         SHIELD RATING
TO-HIT   0   1   2   3   4   5
2+       2+ 3+ 4+ 4+ 5+ 6+
3+       3+ 4+ 4+ 5+ 6+ 6+
4+       4+ 4+ 5+ 5+ 6+ 6+
5+       5+ 5+ 6+ 6+ 6+ --
6+       6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ -- --

Sorry for the double post (and for the maybe dumb question), but how this table comes out?

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6 Reply by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

murtalianconfederacy:
i've not so many problem rolling 36d6 (we have them all! :shock: ).
The thing that bother us is the 3 rolls per shot (4 if you hit weapons) needed do deal damage. There is where the 90% of the time required for a round go, and we all think it is too much.

Said this, i agree with you about the strong points of this game. As i don't like solo games, the problem now is that i don't have a chance to play it again if i can't reduce the number of rolls per shot (maintaining the whole building process balanced).

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7 Reply by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

Thanks for your fast reply, Cricket.

cricket wrote:

So i tried Starmada with other 3 players, starting with 2000 pts per side, resulting in 11 ships vs 9.

This might have been too big for a first game.

It may be... but while we're new for Starmada, we all are old "experienced" gamers, and we often try to "stress" the games a bit to see if we like to play them more seriously after the first "test & learn" game (where we allow redoin wrong moves etc..).

cricket wrote:

Assuming this wasn't just inexperience with the game coupled with a large-ish battle, I'm not sure what to say. The three-roll combat mechanic is really what makes Starmada "Starmada". If it's too much rolling for your tastes, then Starmada might not be your thing.

Honestly, this isn't a common complaint. Sure, some people keep the number of weapons to a minimum because they don't like rolling "buckets" of dice, and the movement system has its share of detractors -- but few (if any) players have expressed a concern that the number of rolls is too high.

I see. As we often start playing at 22, having 3 hours at maximum to play a game, we may have raised a taste for fast games mechanics. I agree that this may be a not so common case

cricket wrote:

I'm not sure what you're asking for.....
I can't see how you'd reduce the number of rolls below two, however...

I'm not sure that it can be done, but i'd like to start computing the odds for the 3 rolls (hit, impact and damage) and then try to find a way to have a single roll with various dice and modifier that stay close at the original odds.
As example, i will like to try to associate a type of die to the target shields (say: 1d4 for a 6 shield, 1d6 for a 4, 1d8 for a 3 etc.), a type of die (or more than one) depending about the weapons values and see if a single roll of all that dices may have an "odds curve" similar to the original.
It's a thing that's hard to explain in italian, i hope i've said somewhat with a mean in english smile

EDIT:
I'm wondering if i'm not taking a reversal approach. I mean: is the weapon "cost"  related to the chance to hit / to penetrate / to damage?
If so, you should already have a sort of "table" showing what i'm trying to compute.... just guessing...

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8 Topic by Parduz

(42 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hi to all from Italy (so, pls, forget my poor english).

Tonight i've played my first Starmada battle, using the ships and the scenario in the core rulebook. To get a grasp to the game, no optional rules has been used.
We (me and my playing group), loves starship games, and we play Silent Death from many years, so Starmada have to face that game, which we think have the clever combat mechanic of all our games.

So i tried Starmada with other 3 players, starting with 2000 pts per side, resulting in 11 ships vs 9.
The first round was only about approaching, and the all ships start firing in the 2nd round, more or less all aligned in the center of the map. Fighters was flying around making his mess, and we start throwing tons of dice.
3 rounds later, we all have agreed to quit.
The feeling was the same for all: the combat mechanic kills the game... we all liked the movement system, which give the feeling of "heavy" ships compared to the fighter we're used to have in Silent Death.... what we can't chew is the insane amount of dice rolling required to deal damage. 3 or 4 rolls per shot is really too much, and (for our taste) kills the "rythm" of the battle. I understand why the manual says that it is better to alternate who's shooting, but really is a bit impratical. The fastest way is to let each player doing all the damage (when there's no decisions to take related to who fires at who), but meanwhile the others players can read the whole rulebook (that's what happened).
So, while we all loves the movements, the ship designing, the optional rules, no one have liked the combat mechanic (or better: the amount of rolls needed).

I think this is a shame, 'cause the game deserve more fun.

So, i'm asking to the "veteran" players if there's any "optional rule" to reduce the amount of rolls whithout breaking the points/building system.

If not, i'd like to try to find one, but this requires a serious work building tables of chances to hits and computing the odds. But i think that at least the game designers have already done it, so maybe i can get some helps without reinvent the wheel... so the question is: there's someone that have a "study" about the "chances to hit" of Starmada AE?

I'll accept any suggestion about this.... i don't want to put Starmada on my shelf and keep it there forever.

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