• Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: First post, First play, First impression

jimbeau wrote:

I miss car wars too. 
"Bangers and Mash" is a car combat game I've wanted to put out for a long time, I even have rules written, playtested somewhat and in the list of things to do before I die.

Bangers and Mash is a complete car combat system, but with a twist. This is not your run-of-the-mill car combat game, with lasers, mines, and reflective armor. Rather it attempts to model the fast-paced and dangerous world of the professional Demolition Derby driver. 
Sprinkled across the US and UK, there are hundreds of these gladiatorial contests staged each weekend.  Banger Racing or Smash Derbies pit men, machines, and sometime mud against one another.
Bangers and Mash is not your Dad's car combat game, but at least its fun, so grab a cold beverage from the land of sky-blue water and put together the best Derby Machine you can muster.  Pit your skills against your buddy's, work the kinks out of your strategy and break some stuff!
While we've provided players with stats for dozens of cars, the real strengths are in its vehicular creation system, wherein players can model any common child's small scale car toy and beat the Carp out of his or her friends and loved-ones.  Bangers and Mash encourages players to be creative, use their imagination and have fun, which is the way wargaming should be.

I don't  have a complete ruleset yet, but I got the intro NAILED! Makes you wanna buy it doesn't it smile
Anyway, If you've given up on chart games, why do you want a chart to play Starmada? big_smile

I'd love to have a Car Wars style game.
And I can't tell you how many times I've suggested that genre to Dan.
That way I could use all of the Matchbox scale cars I bought to use with the Dark Future boardgame that GW put out 15-20 years ago. I've got a lot of foot models, in addition to a lot of the plastic and lead vehilcles from that system.
Just no ruleset.
*sigh*
Mad Kevin

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: First post, First play, First impression

jimbeau wrote:

"Bangers and Mash" is a car combat game I've wanted to put out for a long time, I even have rules written, playtested somewhat and in the list of things to do before I die.

...so grab a cold beverage from the land of sky-blue water...


"land of sky blue waters" - heh! I miss the cigarette commercials, too - even if I never did start that particular habit.

I was around back when Car Wars came out, just never got into it, and at the time it didn't look like that great a game. No one I knew played it, or was interested in it.

TWERPS, on the other hand....
smile

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: First post, First play, First impression

underling wrote:

I'd love to have a Car Wars style game.
And I can't tell you how many times I've suggested that genre to Dan.
That way I could use all of the Matchbox scale cars I bought to use with the Dark Future boardgame that GW put out 15-20 years ago. I've got a lot of foot models, in addition to a lot of the plastic and lead vehilcles from that system.
Just no ruleset.
*sigh*
Mad Kevin

Thing is, I'd come at it from a quasi-realistic angle and I think you were wanting to head down a different path

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: First post, First play, First impression

jimbeau wrote:
underling wrote:

I'd love to have a Car Wars style game.
And I can't tell you how many times I've suggested that genre to Dan.
That way I could use all of the Matchbox scale cars I bought to use with the Dark Future boardgame that GW put out 15-20 years ago. I've got a lot of foot models, in addition to a lot of the plastic and lead vehilcles from that system.
Just no ruleset.
*sigh*
Mad Kevin

Thing is, I'd come at it from a quasi-realistic angle and I think you were wanting to head down a different path

Hmmm...
I don't remember me not wanting to come at it from a realistic angle, but at the same time I do think it should be fairly fast-playing and be set up so that players can run multiple cars and/or groups of pedestrians.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: First post, First play, First impression

underling wrote:

Hmmm...
I don't remember me not wanting to come at it from a realistic angle, but at the same time I do think it should be fairly fast-playing and be set up so that players can run multiple cars and/or groups of pedestrians.

Heh, can you say "Death Race 2000"?
big_smile

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: First post, First play, First impression

underling wrote:
jimbeau wrote:
underling wrote:

I'd love to have a Car Wars style game.
And I can't tell you how many times I've suggested that genre to Dan.
That way I could use all of the Matchbox scale cars I bought to use with the Dark Future boardgame that GW put out 15-20 years ago. I've got a lot of foot models, in addition to a lot of the plastic and lead vehilcles from that system.
Just no ruleset.
*sigh*
Mad Kevin

Thing is, I'd come at it from a quasi-realistic angle and I think you were wanting to head down a different path

Hmmm...
I don't remember me not wanting to come at it from a realistic angle, but at the same time I do think it should be fairly fast-playing and be set up so that players can run multiple cars and/or groups of pedestrians.

Why do we remember different things? hmm

anyway, Bangers and Mash is not Car Wars or anything like it, really

  • Registered: 2008-11-28
  • Posts: 8

Re: First post, First play, First impression

thedugan wrote:

I was around back when Car Wars came out, just never got into it, and at the time it didn't look like that great a game. No one I knew played it, or was interested in it.

I've played it with the same 2 friends (and some more occasionally) each sunday afternoon for 3 years.... until we've discovered somewhat more interesting to do with girls lol

thedugan wrote:

TWERPS, on the other hand....


What is "TWERPS"?

  • Registered: 2005-12-28
  • Posts: 195

Re: First post, First play, First impression

Parduz wrote:

I've played it with the same 2 friends (and some more occasionally) each sunday afternoon for 3 years.... until we've discovered somewhat more interesting to do with girls lol

"girls"?  What company makes that game?   I searched the shelves of my local game store and did not find such a game.  I asked the manager about it and all he did was laugh for quite some time. 

big_smile

  • Registered: 2005-12-28
  • Posts: 195

Re: First post, First play, First impression

underling wrote:

Or...
You all could play with smaller ships with fewer weapons.
But if you insist on playing with 20+ ships per side, each with 53 hull boxes and 20+ weapons with multiple dice capabilities, then you get what you get.

53 hull?   We, who make and play larger ships compared to everyone else, haven't even gone that far.  (the B10 should be a 30 hull ship, no?)  8)

Richard, stop salivating.  big_smile

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: First post, First play, First impression

Parduz wrote:
thedugan wrote:

I was around back when Car Wars came out, just never got into it, and at the time it didn't look like that great a game. No one I knew played it, or was interested in it.

I've played it with the same 2 friends (and some more occasionally) each sunday afternoon for 3 years.... until we've discovered somewhat more interesting to do with girls lol

Car Wars came out in 1980, I was then 22, and aboard USS Omaha (may she rust in pieces). Didn't really have a lot of gaming time, having to work 80-110 hours a week on average. I did participate in a D&D campaign in '83-'84, though. Even at Great Lakes (I was an instructor in "A" school for part of that time), with an active gaming club, no one played Car Wars - SFB, Rolemaster, and Runequest, mainly....a few other things.

Parduz wrote:
thedugan wrote:

]TWERPS, on the other hand....


What is "TWERPS"?

It's an RPG - googled it...

http://www.angelfire.com/pq/pineappleleader/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWERPS

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=twerps+rpg&aq=4&oq=TWERPS

..it's usually played for laughs, but it actually works alright for a minimalist RPG.

BTW, it's actually T.W.E.R.P.S. - "The Worlds Easiest Role Role Playing System"....

  • Registered: 2013-04-25
  • Posts: 5

Re: First post, First play, First impression

Thread Necromancy!!

I kind of agree with the OP of this thread that Starmada has too many iterations of die rolling;
1. roll for to-hit,
2. roll for shield penetration,
3. roll for damage, and
4. if a weapon is hit, roll again for weapon damage.
When I first started playing, this actually rather bothered me, especially with large fleets. As time went on and I played more and got more experience with the combat procedure it became less of an issue. I got quicker at sorting out hits from misses.
However, I did come up with a couple of ideas that may help anyone else experiencing the same feeling.
I have not used either of these. (Although, I did go as far as to purchase some additional dice for the first option)

Use 20-sided die for damage dice:
With this method, you throw a d20 for each damage point instead of making two seperate d6 rolls for damage.
Die      Result
1.        Weapon Hit #1
2.        Weapon Hit #2
3.        Weapon Hit #3
4.        Weapon Hit #4
5.        Weapon Hit #5
6.        Weapon Hit #6
7-12.   Shield Hit
13-18. Engine Hit
19-20. Null result. You'll have to re-roll, anyway.
Score HULL hits on odd numbers 1-18. If the ship has "Armored Hull Plating", score a HULL hit on odd numbers 1-12 (ignoring the odd numbers through the Engines hit sequence).
This procedure maintains the same chances of getting a particular result from a damage die under the normal rules.

Dice-less Damage:
With this method, you don't throw dice at all; you apply damage sequentially without any randomness whatsoever.
Damage Pt.     Result
Point #1      Hull Hit (Ignore if "Armor Hull Plating"). Engine Hit.
Point #2      Engine Hit.
Point #3      Hull Hit. Shield Hit.
Point #4      Shield Hit.
Point #5      Hull Hit. Weapon Hit #1.
Point #6      Weapon Hit #2.
Further damage repeats but changes the Weapons hits:
Point #7-10 Same results as first iteration,   
Point #11    Hull Hit. Weapon Hit #3.
Point #12    Weapon Hit #4.
Point #13-16 Same results as first iteration,
Point #17    Hull Hit. Weapon Hit #5.
Point #18    Weapon Hit #6.
Further Damage just repeats the entire cycle.

Edit: I fixed a mistake where I got Engines and Shields mixed up in the second method.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: First post, First play, First impression

Thanks for the suggestions!

For what it's worth, I have always felt combat/damage resolution was a potential weak point in the game engine.

Don't get me wrong: the To-Hit => Shield Roll => Damage progression is pretty much what makes Starmada, you know, STARMADA. And in  the early iterations of the game, that was it, and it worked fine: one, two, three, DONE.

The problem has always come in when attempting to evenly distribute damage to weapons, which is when I added the fourth roll (sometimes) in Admiralty -- i.e. the weapon location roll. That, IMHO, became a bit cumbersome, especially when you look at some of the additional rolls that come in to play with certain weapon traits. And when I played the game, I felt there was too much down-time while my opponent resolved his attacks. (As a result, I may have allowed the pendulum to swing too far the other direction with Nova, but that's another story.)

Anyway, looking at your options:

1) The D20 roll is not a bad idea, but it does require switching dice in the middle of the process. With the D6 only method, you may re-roll a lot, but at least you're always picking up dice that are already in front of you.

2) I like the dice-less damage thing. Would you track for each individual ship, or for the battle as a whole? i.e. you attack me, and score three points of damage, so I check off one Hull+Engine, one Engine, and one Hull+Shield. When I attack you, do I start over at Point #1, or do I start at Point #4?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2013-04-25
  • Posts: 5

Re: First post, First play, First impression

I had figured that you would track for each ship individually. Hadn't thought about having it carry over through the entire course of the battle. That would help randomize things, I suppose. Order becomes important then, wouldn't it? As we play it now, we assume all damage is simultaneous and all players resolve it at the same time. That was what I was assuming when I thought of the idea.

  • Registered: 2013-04-25
  • Posts: 5

Re: First post, First play, First impression

As for Nova, the damage system is something I really liked! It goes very quickly and yet still represents a gradual degradation of capability. My issue with Nova is the firing procedure. I found it to be rather difficult to learn; it's a bit counter-intuitive, I think. Nothing really wrong with that, though. I get the reasons why it was done that way. I still prefer Admiralty, though. smile

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: First post, First play, First impression

Yes, order would become more important than it is, but not TOO much.

The reason I would argue for carrying over is that it's easier to track: just have a single sheet of paper and check off the damage results as you go. Otherwise, you need to track on each individual ship card.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2013-04-25
  • Posts: 5

Re: First post, First play, First impression

I don't think tracking it on the datacard would be too big of a deal. I mean it goes sequentially. Engines, shields, weapons. Hull as appropriate. Unless, I suppose, you've got a ship that has a high hull size. Then you might "get lost" in the tracking, so to speak. Generally, the hull size of ships that I create are around 10 or so; I think it would work well for that amount.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: First post, First play, First impression

One possibility is to do a hybrid system:

Roll for damage normally. When weapons hits are indicated, progress through the Weapons Damage Chart, starting with #1. When #6 is reached, restart at #1. You can make tickmarks on the ship's data card to keep track of where you are in the progression.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2009-10-09
  • Posts: 3

Re: First post, First play, First impression

Only a couple months late to the conversation...

Another option for the diceless damage would be to use a set of 18 cards  (say Ace to 9 in two suits for each player) mapped to the table.  Once you've drawn all 18, reshuffle and start over.  Then you don't know what order the damage will come up (to reduce predictability) and there's no need to keep track of where you are in the sequence.