• Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 8

Topic: Minefields

Hi,
I've played my first Iron Stars game yesterday... really good game!

there's just one thing that leaves me dubious, and it's the rule for releasing minefields...

the rules say that minefields are released in the end phase, and the template must be placed in the aft arc of the ship at a distance of up to the ship's momentum in inches.

but what happens if I speed (say 12") with my very small crafts (as the Volga's in the scenario 1), then turn 180°? in the end phase I can place the minefield up to 12" towards the direction I traveled, as a sort of artillery... I'm sure this is not intended, maybe should be fixed?

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Minefields

Drugo wrote:

Hi,
I've played my first Iron Stars game yesterday... really good game!

Glad you like it!

Drugo wrote:

but what happens if I speed (say 12") with my very small crafts (as the Volga's in the scenario 1), then turn 180°? in the end phase I can place the minefield up to 12" towards the direction I traveled as a sort of artillery... I'm sure this is not intended, maybe should be fixed?

Nah... no need for a fix -- you're using your ship's centrifigual (sp?) force to fling the mines out in the opposite direction...

Yeah, that's it... smile

Good spot. I'll have to figure out how to legislate this without placing the minefield in the middle of movement...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Minefields

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hundvighong [mailto:hundvighong@yahoo.com]

> Hmmm...I've been doing that all along and never noticed a problem. 
> The little hulls can't carry that many mine factors, and the big
> hulls (even with gyros) can't turn sharply enough to be a huge
> threat.  OTOH, I never tried it with a *lot* of small mine-flingers,
> either.  It might break down kind when used en masse, eh?

I LOVE it!!!

We just change the name of the tech from "Mines" to "Mineflingers" and everything is just fine... smile

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Minefields

cricket wrote:

> Hmmm...I've been doing that all along and never noticed a problem. 
> The little hulls can't carry that many mine factors, and the big
> hulls (even with gyros) can't turn sharply enough to be a huge
> threat.  OTOH, I never tried it with a *lot* of small mine-flingers,
> either.  It might break down kind when used en masse, eh?

I LOVE it!!!
We just change the name of the tech from "Mines" to "Mineflingers" and everything is just fine... smile
Dan

I'd suggest the name 'Mine Casters'....

Flinging sounds like something you do with boogers....
lol  smile

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 8

Re: Minefields

cricket wrote:

Good spot. I'll have to figure out how to legislate this without placing the minefield in the middle of movement...

maybe you have to place them touching your ship's base?

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Minefields

Drugo wrote:

but what happens if I speed (say 12") with my very small crafts (as the Volga's in the scenario 1), then turn 180°? in the end phase I can place the minefield up to 12" towards the direction I traveled, as a sort of artillery... I'm sure this is not intended, maybe should be fixed?

The easiest fix I can think of so far is to simply state that a ship cannot make any course changes in a turn during which it lays a minefield...

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Minefields

cricket wrote:
Drugo wrote:

but what happens if I speed (say 12") with my very small crafts (as the Volga's in the scenario 1), then turn 180°? in the end phase I can place the minefield up to 12" towards the direction I traveled, as a sort of artillery... I'm sure this is not intended, maybe should be fixed?

The easiest fix I can think of so far is to simply state that a ship cannot make any course changes in a turn during which it lays a minefield...

Dan

..and if they do, they get how much of the minefield damage?

I don't see as how this is a problem, other than simply tracking the minefield, then there's the problem of determining if one hits....:-)

The rules say nothing about minefields moving that I can see.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Minefields

thedugan wrote:

..and if they do, they get how much of the minefield damage?

I'm not sure what you're asking... the rules for minefields make it clear that they are laid at the end of movement, behind the ship. Thus, the minelayer should be able to avoid damage from its own mines.

thedugan wrote:

I don't see as how this is a problem, other than simply tracking the minefield, then there's the problem of determining if one hits....:-)

Again, I think the rules are quite clear on how minefield damage is determined.

And no, minefields do not move.

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Minefields

cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

..and if they do, they get how much of the minefield damage?

I'm not sure what you're asking... the rules for minefields make it clear that they are laid at the end of movement, behind the ship. Thus, the minelayer should be able to avoid damage from its own mines.

I guess I was misunderstanding his question, then.

I was under the impression that he was thinking of 'throwing the mines' at the opposing fleet, as he used the term 'artillery'.

I've not yet had a second cup, and I was up until 2am fixing a problem with DOGA caused by my son installing 'NBA Live' without asking first. There's also a problem with the USB ports not working as they did, making downloading my wife's camera a pain....welcome to Win-dos 2000.

At least, it's a bit more stable.


cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

I don't see as how this is a problem, other than simply tracking the minefield, then there's the problem of determining if one hits....:-)

Again, I think the rules are quite clear on how minefield damage is determined.

And no, minefields do not move.

Well, I thought I read that right.... :?

Throwing mines would've changed that, I think,

So, you lay a minefield, and turn immediately into it - apply minefield to that ship as per the rules.....

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Minefields

thedugan wrote:

I was under the impression that he was thinking of 'throwing the mines' at the opposing fleet, as he used the term 'artillery'.

[...]

So, you lay a minefield, and turn immediately into it - apply minefield to that ship as per the rules.....

No, I think you're still missing it... wink

The original question was how to -avoid- treating mines like artillery (flinging them about) since that's what could conceiveably happen with the rules as-is. I am proposing that ships cannot change course during the turn in which they lay a minefield, thus avoiding the problem.

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 379

Re: Minefields

Haven't seen this happen, but looking at the rules I could see where it may pop up.

But then, I don't think it's a drastic problem.

I think it might be worth checking out the ships here before adding on any other rules.  The template can't be centered any further away than the ship's momentum, which is half its speed, right?  So the furthest ANY  capital ship currently listed in the rules as having mines could "fling" these templates is 6".  not exactly artillery

It isn't like these things are being flung across the board.   If you were saying mines were placed based off SPEED, then that would be another matter entirely.  But you're saying momentum, which is something else. 

I've been slapping these things on tables like mad lately.

Then again -- if someone were to build a Thrust 10 ship with a ton of mines, it could be a problem.

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 379

Re: Minefields

I should just stay out of discussin re: mechanics big_smile

Typing out a post while taking a break from work always leads to me posting something I don't like.

  • Registered: 2005-03-30
  • Posts: 272

Re: Minefields

That "no course change" idea is probably the way to go.  I was fiddling with some 8-hull designs last night trying to make a minimaxed minelayer and the results looked pretty alarming, although I didn't calculate cost...a really high CR might have made them reasonable, but I doubt it.  Thrust 9 and a gyro is a pretty alarming combo the way the rules stand at present.

I forget, does the rulebook say what happens when mines overlap each other?  Do you take damage from each field, or just once?

Rich

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Minefields

hundvig wrote:

I forget, does the rulebook say what happens when mines overlap each other?  Do you take damage from each field, or just once?

You take damage from all fields, even if they overlap.

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 8

Re: Minefields

I've created a monster...  tongue

I like the solution "no turn when minelaying", will try it next game (hopefully this weekend)

another question: can you lay a minefield template directly underneath another ship? the only restriction is it must be layed in the aft arc...

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Minefields

Now my shower is the right height, and MAYBE the spigot will be the proper distance from the wall....

cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

I was under the impression that he was thinking of 'throwing the mines' at the opposing fleet, as he used the term 'artillery'. [...]So, you lay a minefield, and turn immediately into it - apply minefield to that ship as per the rules.....

No, I think you're still missing it... wink

big_smile
Understatment and sarcasm are so hard to get across via text....If there was no rule that said 'no turns after laying a minefield' (and in the main book, there isn't) - that would be the result, yes?

cricket wrote:

The original question was how to -avoid- treating mines like artillery (flinging them about) since that's what could conceiveably happen with the rules as-is. I am proposing that ships cannot change course during the turn in which they lay a minefield, thus avoiding the problem.

I think that mines may end up being a huge 'terrain creator', especially with a sizeable squadron of small, fast ships.

Will the 'fighters' (FAC's?) be able to lay mines?

I was thinking about the small mine-laying subs I seem to recall someone having in WW1.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Minefields

thedugan wrote:

I think that mines may end up being a huge 'terrain creator', especially with a sizeable squadron of small, fast ships.

Will the 'fighters' (FAC's?) be able to lay mines?

Yes.

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Minefields

cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

I think that mines may end up being a huge 'terrain creator', especially with a sizeable squadron of small, fast ships.

Will the 'fighters' (FAC's?) be able to lay mines?

Yes.

Wow....That's gonna be interesting.

I look forward to seeing the rules.