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mj12games.com/forum → Iron Stars → A Fair Petition to Mr. Daniel Kast
As for Zeppelins, airships, dirigibles, blips, etc, it does't start hurricanes, it crashes on hurricanes.
Are a poor weapon mount because... it leaks.
One too many crew member and it can't lift up in the air.
You want to go west, but the wind is blowing south, so you go south-west.
It's fun for an expedition adventure, but will it work against the kind of fire power already created in this universe?
As for Zeppelins, airships, dirigibles, blips, etc, it does't start hurricanes, it crashes on hurricanes.
Are a poor weapon mount because... it leaks.
One too many crew member and it can't lift up in the air.
You want to go west, but the wind is blowing south, so you go south-west.
It's fun for an expedition adventure, but will it work against the kind of fire power already created in this universe?
Well, we've pretty much established that ether-ships won't function in atmosphere -- so there's really nothing on Earth that is any more "powerful" or dominating than what was available historically. So, Zeppelins would offer exactly what they did historically -- a stable observation platform and relatively cheap method of transport.
With the additional Wasserstahl/hydrosteel as a tough yet light exoskin, and replacement of hydrogen with a less explosive gas, Zeppelins could easily carve out an important niche in warfare.
Heck, the airplane dominated WW2, both on land and over the sea, yet you can't mount a 12" gun on one of those, either...
Well, we've pretty much established that ether-ships won't function in atmosphere
Okay. I'll abide by that one. :cry: But can ether-ship at least go up and down vertically? To land? It would be easier to load and unload. And it would give us an inch of maneuver to do other things...
With the additional Wasserstahl/hydrosteel as a tough yet light exoskin, and replacement of hydrogen with a less explosive gas, Zeppelins could easily carve out an important niche in warfare.
Yes, we can suppose zepps would be an interesting choice. Helium would do it. Although more expensive it wouldn't explode as hydrogen would.
Heck, the airplane dominated WW2, both on land and over the sea, yet you can't mount a 12" gun on one of those, either...
Sure. But palnes are heavier than air. Planes had an amount of speed that gave them other kind protection. Zepps are very slow. Completely took out the zeppelins from WWI when they appeared and several times during the 2th war someone tried to put a big cannon in one of them and several actually had pretty big cannons. The 75mm cannon in the b-25 Mitchel, the experimental 3inch cannon in the Beaufighter, and some more that I don't have in mind right now.
Ei. I'm not saying I won't go for the zepps, I just think it would be more unique the other path.
You're thinking conventional weaponry...who says it has to be shells...or large calibre for that matter. 6-inch cannon can still be pretty nasty as can rapidly firing 2-3" guns. Zepplins are pretty good bombers. And since we've got Tesla going for us...nothing says Lightening Cannon, Fire Arrows/ Hale Rockets, or such can't be used. (other than Dan) 
Then you get the crazy red russians with their heat guns and black smoke...
And while zepplins are slow, that was pretty much due to propulsion tech limits...which are already obsolete due to the advances in ether-ship engines and, as Dan stated, lighter construction materials with greater composite strengths. (ie- their energy to mass ratio is likely to be higher resulting in speeds at least close to conventional naval vessels in potential).
I wouldn't say Aetherships CAN'T land, it's just that that create such a furor in the atmosphere that they're not useful as civilian craft except as 'elevators' in a given 'spaceport'. Think using tethered Cavorite spheres as "Orbital Elevators".
And I'd stick with Hydrogen as a lifting gas. The Hindenburg went 'kablooey' due to using something akin to thermite as a paint on it's skin, not because of the hydrogen. Wasserstahl as a containment would eliminate that problem.
Bombs can be dropped from a zeppelin. The problem in WW1 was bomb tech, not the delivery vehicle.
Take a look at the first few links...
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Puff%20the%20magic%20Dragon%22%20Vietnam
Fear not the lack of large caliber weaponry!
:twisted:
Okay, Admiral Dungan, I already acepted the Zepps. :?
And I'd stick with Hydrogen as a lifting gas. The Hindenburg went 'kablooey' due to using something akin to thermite as a paint on it's skin, not because of the hydrogen. Wasserstahl as a containment would eliminate that problem.
On that, a lot of zepps went kaboom, using Hydrogen, the US stop using it and traded to helium after some very dangerous accidents, and the germans continue to have explosions due the use of Hydrogen, after the US decided not to sell more helium to the nazis.
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Lighter_than_air/dirigibles/LTA9.htm
As for the C-47 Gunship, I build it when I was a kid in a marvelous 1/72 Airfix model. 
I love the DC-3/C-47. I think it's one of the major state of the art vehicles (with the willis Jeep) that the USA ever made.
So let's make killer Zeppelins.
Where are the rules? Where are the rules?
On that, a lot of zepps went kaboom, using Hydrogen, the US stop using it and traded to helium after some very dangerous accidents, and the germans continue to have explosions due the use of Hydrogen, after the US decided not to sell more helium to the nazis.
Yes, hydrogen DOES burn, but then, the crappy materials they used to contain it didn't help any.
In Iron Stars, they have wasserstahl, and so would have better containment.
So let's make killer Zeppelins.
Where are the rules? Where are the rules?
...next supplement? Unless you want to do some google-fu and figure out some general rules about building hydrogen airships. That's Dan's department - the heavy math...
Blackronin wrote:
So let's make killer Zeppelins.
Where are the rules? Where are the rules?...next supplement? Unless you want to do some google-fu and figure out some general rules about building hydrogen airships. That's Dan's department - the heavy math...
I have the ideas. I don't have the heavy maths, just the light maths. 
Not that I would mind, mind you. But I followed another trek and maths stayed behind.
And I do like the idea of heavy and slow monsters moving around each other and firing broadsides, since of course, we would admit, (would we, mr. Daniel?) :roll: that turrets would be heavy on a lighter than air airship.
Depends on the turret an size of weaponry involved.
You'll be looking at more of a ball turret arrangement from an engineering perspective. Naturally with larger calibre weaponry the traverse capability will become increasingly reduced.
I'd avoid hydrogen for numerous reasons, such as even with wasserstahl, shells explode...and hot flaming metal going boom inside or near hydrogen is certain death for a zepp. Won't even go into the effects of a lightening gun on the gas. :shock:
You're making the assumption that it's going to do more than just slowly burn as the H2 leaks out.
Hindenburg was an exception because of the flammable paint mixture they used on the skin. Lightening strikes were COMMON...
The few films of flaming wrecks other than Hindenburg falling are hours after they've been hit, usually under heavy attack.
If you read the WW1 acounts, MOST dirigibles didn't do much more than that. The fuel and air aren't at the ratio needed for an explosion in a gas bag. With a significant electricity source onboard to generate gas from water, more substantial gas bag materials, and more compartmentalization, zeppelins would be almost as survivable as a WW1 Destroyer, and likely more robust than a WW1 submarine.
IMHO the zepps should have the same game engine from IS, for a question of universe cohesion, with different rules for movement (it should be different from ether movement), weapons, and crew (crew quality and boarding parties).
That's true to an extent...a more comprehensive analysis of both the accident and safety issues are simply noted;
http://www.cypenv.org/Files/Hydrogen%20myths.htm
http://www.cypenv.org/Files/hydrogen.htm
That's true to an extent...a more comprehensive analysis of both the accident and safety issues are simply noted;
http://www.cypenv.org/Files/Hydrogen%20myths.htm
http://www.cypenv.org/Files/hydrogen.htm
..no complaints there, about what I've said. I'll leave it at that.
I know I am responding to this a bit late, but wasn't the main reason the US got out of the airship biz more weather related than hydrogen related.
As kids we have seen the result of releasing a balloon in a high wind. Not much difference for a zepp or blimp. Too many accidents caused by weather led to the demise of the mighty airship.
The idea of zepps, dirigibles etc comes back from time to time but they are of such limited utility that they haven't and probably won't become the masters of the skies.
But a cavorite 'nef would work and not be such a terror to the airways. Create an upsided down plenum chamber with cavorite on the bottom of the chamber. Allow air to enter and exit only in certain directions. Not only do you have lift but you have thrust as well. The tornado effects are limited to the chamber and to the area immediately surrounding the entrance and exhaust ports. The "engine" would be simple, the only moving parts are the nozzles for the exhaust. Electric heating/cooling could be used to control the efficacy of the cavorite. (BTW stole this from an earlier post by Blackronin).
As to 'nefs being more detrimental to world affairs than airships...poppycock. If airships can do as you have postulated they would be just as deadly to the world status quo. With cavorite you can create a version of unobtanium that would limit the effects of 'nefs on world politics. Or just realize that 'nefs would give gunboat diplomacy a greater sphere of influence. After the invasion of the Martians world politics and borders on the map would probably be in a great deal of flux anyway.
The martians would have been the equivalent of the worst plague on a world encompassing scale (and in a singular compressed timeframe). Most smaller and weaker countries would have succumbed to the effects and the countries most able to bounce back would be gobbling them up. I recently re-read War of the Worlds and what the Martians did to the Earth's population would make the aftermath of the 100 years War, WWI, WWII, the black death, AIDS and the Swine Flu of 1918 look like a bad case of the measles.
I understand you want to use airships, but even with wasserstahl they would be prone to weather effects and not likely to be used. I think 'nefs based on cavorite plenums would be more likely.
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