Topic: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Some Grumm ship designs have a weapon called Ravenous with "Increased Damage". Is this supposed to be Increased Impact or Continuing Damage? Or am I missing something? (I know Increased Damage is a fighter trait but this is a ship's weapon.)

The main guns on the Dai-Ken ships are all listed as having Range-based IMP. Except, the Sumida-class CA which has Inv. Range-Based IMP. However, the T26 gun on the Sumida is the same gun on several other designs which just list Range-Based IMP. Is the Sumida an error?

My next game will be Grumm v. Dai-Ken, so it's important.  8-)

A search of the forum didn't turn up these questions...

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

The ship builder file also has Increased Damage, I believe it's meant to be Increased Impact.

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Increased Damage = Increased Impact

All of the T26 guns should have the same stats -- the Sumida is a typo.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Thank you, kind sir!

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

I found another one. The Grumm Cruiser (Arger class) and the two carriers have an Eviscerator with range 12 and Impact 3.

The other ships, the BB and BC, that have the Eviscrerator are range 15 and Impact 4.

Are these Eviscerator 1 and Eviscerator 2? They seem to be intended to be different weapons.

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Hey -- I wrote up the Grumm ships.

The difference in the Grumm weapons is just meant to represent different classes of the same sort of battery.  Basic properties of each mount is the same.  It's just that one packs more oomph than the other.

First time I've posted here in months.  Just saw someone was actually writing about the Grumm.

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

That made sense to me but I wanted to confirm it. Thank you!

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

I have question concerning Dai-ken missiles.

Page 14 gives the stats for the Type 94 missile and says that they are strikers. It shows a capacity requirement of 28. Using the latest shipyard, I get a capacity requirement of 32. Changing the type to Seekers drops this to 24.

Which type are they ment to be? And are any of these numbers correct for the capacity?


EDIT: I've got another question too: Some of the "Kakashi models 1s" on Daiken ships have Doubled Range mods, and some do not - are these 2 weapon systems?

Also the 41 /TvL Main Guns on the Goryu have IMP 2, whereas the same guns on other ships have IMP-3

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Laurence, I get some issues with putting the Grumm ships into the Shipyard. They tend to come out 6-10 points more expensive and I can't figure out why. I haven't even tried the fighters, yet!

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Yes, I have been having similar issues.

Have you included the "Grumm pivot ability"?

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Yes, I remembered to include it.

Here is an idea. If you enter your ships stats into the Shipyard using the most common specs for the gun you are asking about, do the points come out right (or close)?

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

3 of the Dai-ken ships are ok, but the other 4 are all a little out. The Goryu is spot on, but only when it has imp 2 main guns, not imp 3 (like the other guns with the same name). The other 3 are all out (5 points less, in all 3 cases). Very strange.....

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Lsutehall wrote:

I have question concerning Dai-ken missiles.

Page 14 gives the stats for the Type 94 missile and says that they are strikers. It shows a capacity requirement of 28. Using the latest shipyard, I get a capacity requirement of 32. Changing the type to Seekers drops this to 24.

The Small Craft last division in the calculations has been put out a bit by Text/Number formatting. Should now work ok.
The shipyard now gives these strikers a capacity of 34. Also checked by hand and got the same figure.

Lsutehall wrote:

3 of the Dai-ken ships are ok, but the other 4 are all a little out. The Goryu is spot on, but only when it has imp 2 main guns, not imp 3 (like the other guns with the same name). The other 3 are all out (5 points less, in all 3 cases). Very strange.....

Which ones? I just entered the KAMINARI details from the book into the shipyard and they matched exactly.

Do not forget that not everyone uses the shipyard and there used to be a couple of points difference at times due to rounding in the calculations. (I thought I had fixed that.)
If you think that there is a problem in the shipyard, please say where you think it may be and I will take another look.
Paul

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Thanks Paul. I've gotten the ship combat ratings correct now - I'd not noticed another slight anomaly with different weapons being called the same thing.

I've changed the defense cells back to "number" formatting, and I now see a capacity req. for those strikers of 32 (in excel anyway, not tried Oo yet), which matches what I got by hand. My only concern now is that you managed to get 34 for the same striker flight!

I'm still not sure if they are supposed to be Strikers or Seekers though - the sourcebook seems to say both, and then gives a capactiy requirement which doesnt match either!

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

This way?
Striker Coefficient=29
Size+1^2=25
Speed=14
Attack 4+=4
Defence=6-1=5
29x25x14/4/5=507.5
507.5^0.5=22.53
DMG 3=1.5
22.53x1.5=33.795  Roundup to 34

I had noticed the differing stats for the "same" weapons. v1,v2 or Improved may have eased confusion.
Paul
Edit, just noticed that if the +1 is not added to the flight size and the roundup is to 4 decimal places you get 28!
The number in the book. Math typo?
Edit: hit 4 instead of 5, end figure right though.

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

OldnGrey wrote:

This way?
Striker Coefficient=29
Size+1^2=25
Speed=14
Attack 4+=4
Defence=6-1=5
29x25x14/4/4=507.5
507.5^0.5=22.53
DMG 3=1.5
22.53x1.5=33.795  Roundup to 34

I had noticed the differing stats for the "same" weapons. v1,v2 or Improved may have eased confusion.
Paul
Edit, just noticed that if the +1 is not added to the flight size and the roundup is to 4 decimal places you get 28!
The number in the book. Math typo?

Ah, I think I've found it - my version of H&C ("Original Version - April 2008") shows the type 94 missile as having speed 12, whereas you've used 14. Has a new version of H&C been released?

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Now that is just plain weird!
Mine is Original Version - April 2008 pdf.
Pdf downloaded within hours of release. I have not heard of different versions.
Have it right in front of me and it has speed 14. :shock:
Perhaps Dan can shed some light on this?
Paul

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Bizarre. Mine, too, says speed 14 and capacity 28. It also says DMG 3.

I fiddled a bit and in Shipyard, I get capacity 28 with the following:
Size 4, Speed 12, Attack 4, Defense 1, DMG 2

It also says they are guided missiles and therefore, I think should be strikers, as it says.

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

Matt's aware of the discussion here and said he'd check in over the weekend.

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

I built the ships using the standard construction worksheet that was already in place for Starmada when I started writing the book.  I dunno why the missile stats are coming off loopy now.  As for the beam weapons, I think we answered that.

I'm getting absolutely clobbered by work and family issues.  I can try to put the missiles through their paces (math wise) again later.  Hope it isn't detracting from your enjoyment o' the setting.

Matt

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

But I'm not aware of multiple versions of the book.  Did Dan update it at some point to clean up errata, and maybe something happened then?

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

I think the answer is obvious ....


Lawn Gnomes.

Re: Grumm and Dai-Ken weapon questions

I just downloaded the pdf again and indeed the speed has changed to 12, still DMG 3 though.
However the "Revision Summary" on page 5 still shows original version with no changes noted.

I did notice that Teleporters on page 7 has been corrected to Orat +10.

Paul