• Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Topic: Hammer & Claw ship questions

About to start a H&C game and some questions have popped up about Boer and Commonwealth ships.
(I am using Shipyard v. 36 for all calculations)

1) Commonwealth Frigate: Shields or Screens? Every other Commonwealth ship has Screens.
2) Boer Aardgees Scout -- at only prices out correctly at 94 with no Countermeasures... does it have Countermeasures or not? (With Countermeasures, it is overpriced at 115 and uses 19 SU too many)
3) Boer Leeu Cruiser -- equipped as listed in book, it prices out at 285 instead of 277 and also requires 22 more SU than allowed
4) Boer Luiperd Cruiser -- equipped as listed in book, it prices out at 207 instead of 187 and uses 69 SU too many. If I reduce the engines from 7 to 5, it prices out at 192...
5) Boer Roofdier battleship -- again, it prices out as 476 instead of 472 and uses 16 SU too many (It has 16 carrier space... should it not have that? If I eliminate that the SUs are correct but he price drops to 459)

The Renoster Cruiser prices correctly (except that it has 1 point of extra Carrier space for no reason and therefore costs 303 instead of 302...).

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

The answers below are my understanding of how things should be ... but Matt is the final arbiter on H&C issues, so if he needs to overrule me on anything, so be it. smile

MadSeason wrote:

1) Commonwealth Frigate: Shields or Screens? Every other Commonwealth ship has Screens.

Screens.

2) Boer Aardgees Scout -- at only prices out correctly at 94 with no Countermeasures... does it have Countermeasures or not? (With Countermeasures, it is overpriced at 115 and uses 19 SU too many)

No countermeasures.

3) Boer Leeu Cruiser -- equipped as listed in book, it prices out at 285 instead of 277 and also requires 22 more SU than allowed

4) Boer Luiperd Cruiser -- equipped as listed in book, it prices out at 207 instead of 187 and uses 69 SU too many. If I reduce the engines from 7 to 5, it prices out at 192...

The shipbuilder from the MJ12 web site comes up with 277 for the Leeu and 187 for the Luiperd... :?:

5) Boer Roofdier battleship -- again, it prices out as 476 instead of 472 and uses 16 SU too many (It has 16 carrier space... should it not have that? If I eliminate that the SUs are correct but he price drops to 459)

From p. 14: "The carrier space on Leeu and Roofdier-class starships is reserved for a standard flight of boarding pods."

The Renoster Cruiser prices correctly (except that it has 1 point of extra Carrier space for no reason and therefore costs 303 instead of 302...).

Use that extra point wisely. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 379

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

I keep seeing folks coming in and saying the ships are priced wrong.  They were built using the starship construction file available at the time (Lord knows I checked and rechecked and re-rechecked).  And from what I saw in Dan's reply, the two ships that came up "wrong" actually came up right.

I didn't do anything by hand.  It was all done using Dan's Excel (the supplement, in fact, does not use any weapon mechanics that were not already established when I started writing the book).

'N that's all I can contribute.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

I can answer this.
It is all my fault!, well that and 0.1

Shipyard v36 had been updated to Iron Stars. Non-Piercing was expanded and what was non-piercing (cost 0.7) became non-piercing-1 (cost 0.8). That 0.1 difference in the W battery threw the figures out.
The official sxca still had 0.7 last time I checked.

So everyone was right - sort of.

All I can say is sorry for the confusion.
Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

...and mill about smartly on the quartedeck while waxing the mizzenmast!

(hey, everyone else was confusing....)

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

Ahhhh, okay. So does this mean that the cost has changed and those ships are now incorrectly costed? Or they were correctly costed for the time and so are good to go as is?

Regardless, thanks for all the responses! It's nice to see developers so active on a forum.  smile

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

cricket wrote:
MadSeason wrote:

1) Commonwealth Frigate: Shields or Screens? Every other Commonwealth ship has Screens.

Screens.

Thanks! But the question becomes... how many screens? Right now it has 3-rating shields.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

MadSeason wrote:

Ahhhh, okay. So does this mean that the cost has changed and those ships are now incorrectly costed? Or they were correctly costed for the time and so are good to go as is?

I would say that they were correctly costed at the time and are good to go as they are. Since all of the ships were made with the same official sxca there should not be a problem. (barring any print error of course smile .)

Paul

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

MadSeason wrote:

Thanks! But the question becomes... how many screens? Right now it has 3-rating shields.

3 shields = 12 screens

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

MadSeason wrote:

Ahhhh, okay. So does this mean that the cost has changed and those ships are now incorrectly costed? Or they were correctly costed for the time and so are good to go as is?

They are good to go as-is, until an official publication "corrects" the point costs.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

Thank you x 3!

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

MadSeason wrote:

Thank you x 3!

And now, you have to give us the AAR...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

cricket wrote:
MadSeason wrote:

Thank you x 3!

And now, you have to give us the AAR...

Patience Grasshopp..er...Cricket  smile

Soon, soon the sneaky Boers will be cornered and forced to fight. As soon as I can find them that is.

Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

Oh, and a point about the ship costing. I'm using the Commonwealth ships and when I ran the ships I picked through the most recent version of the Shipyard (v36 or 37?) I only came up with 1 difference in points and that was by 1 (lower) than the official #. Instead of going crazy trying to figure it out I just went with the official value.
Erik

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

MadSeason, look over there!

Now that he's not looking here... wink
Ok, one question I came up with relates to the Commonwealth Pippestrelle seekers. Since they have the Area Effect trait are they targeted at a ship like other seekers or at a hex like fixed weapons with Area Effect? My gut feeling is that it's the former not the latter, but either would make sense to me. Also with Area Effect, do you roll to attack cloaked ships in the Area Effect-ed area even if you don't know they are there? I would think so, just hoping for clarification.
Thanks,
Erik

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

Blacklancer99 wrote:

MadSeason, look over there!

Now that he's not looking here... wink

That's quite the cunning plan you've put into action... wink

Ok, one question I came up with relates to the Commonwealth Pippestrelle seekers. Since they have the Area Effect trait are they targeted at a ship like other seekers or at a hex like fixed weapons with Area Effect?

They can be targeted at either a ship or a hex.

Also with Area Effect, do you roll to attack cloaked ships in the Area Effect-ed area even if you don't know they are there? I would think so, just hoping for clarification.

This is actually the clarification made in the (as-yet-unreleased) Revision 2; while cloaked, ships are immune to all weapons, including those with area effect.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

This is actually the clarification made in the (as-yet-unreleased) Revision 2; while cloaked, ships are immune to all weapons, including those with area effect

If I can't have it yet, does that mean I can ignore it :?
Just kidding, thanks for the clarifications, even if I don't like one of them  :cry:
So much for my launch depth charges idea...
Cheers,
Erik

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

Blacklancer99 wrote:

Just kidding, thanks for the clarifications, even if I don't like one of them  :cry:

Sorry ... it just makes things easier to be as direct as possible: no weapons can affect a cloaked target, unless it has been detected.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

Hey. What are you guys talking about over here?

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Hammer & Claw ship questions

MadSeason wrote:

Hey. What are you guys talking about over here?

Uuuh, nuthin'. Hey look what I've got, it's a shiny new nickel. Ooooh ...SHINE-EEEE!  lol