• Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Topic: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

Hello everyone,
I have just finished reading the Klingon Armada suppliment and once again noted that no ships had weapons that fired farther than 18 hexes.  Even the Phaser Fours only fired out to 24. 
My friends and I play using weapons that often fire out to 30 hexes.  And I began to wonder: do many players use the ranges beyond 18 hexes? 
Although weapons that fire out 30 are more expensive, having such weapons has made fighters almost obsolete in the games we have played.  They get shot out of space long b4 they can get close.  These longer ranges even make it difficult for strikers to hit.  I must confess that I like having the main batteries on my BBs fire to 30, and the secondaries fire out to 20 using caronnade. 8-)   
I am curious; do most players use 18 as the maximum range for weapons?

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 137

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

In our current campaign (using the Simplest Possible Campaign System), weapon ranges only go up to 9. The only fighters are torpedoes, which are strikers with size 1 and speed 5.

This makes maneuvering much more important, and therefore (IMHO) makes the game more interesting.

If everyone can shoot all the way across the map, it's just an artillery duel. A very fast ship might be able to outflank a capital ship, but it's not likely, since a ship that sits in place can turn on a dime. Edge-of-map effects are also heightened by long ranges: a ship can put its back to the "wall" and still fire on most of the map.

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

I agree with Mundungus. At this point, I would welcome a game with ranges maxed at lower than 15 just to increase the importance of maneuvering.

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

I also think that excessively long ranges are not the way to go.
In Grand Fleets, which uses a similar game engine to S:AE, the Russo-Japanese War main gun ranges vary anywhere from 6 to 9 hexes, with ship's speeds ranging from 3 to 5 hexes.
It makes for games that are totally about maneuvering.
Quite frankly, I think any ranges over 18 would be b-o-r-i-n-g.
Kevin

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

MadSeason wrote:

I agree with Mundungus. At this point, I would welcome a game with ranges maxed at lower than 15 just to increase the importance of maneuvering.

Agreed. In fact I'd be open to changing our game/campaign limitations for the Gorlev-Republic war to have lower max ranges. If somebody suggested ranges of over 18 (never mind 30!) I would have to be playing on a table 400x400 hexes  wink
Without tactical maneuvering the game becomes "who has the better guns and better rolls". But then again, I have always preferred age of sail analogies for my sci-fi space battles than those with a more "modern" flavor.
Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2005-11-02
  • Posts: 130

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

I also think shorter ranges are better.

In our last game of Starmda at Rapier Convention.

Not one ship had to use its flank arcs unless that is where they put all their weapons.

There was no manuver.

I was also thinking of making ships that can fit all the weapons I need and then doubling the hull so battles will last longer not sure if this will work. I need to try it a few times.

  • Registered: 2006-07-24
  • Posts: 158

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

We use range 30, but honestly I would rather drop the range down to 18 or so, make maneuvering useful and all those points spent on carriers actually worth something.

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

I tend to employ weapons with a max. range of 18. Range 24 and 30 are for those very special weapons or to signify that its a ballistic weapon.

  • Registered: 2007-07-29
  • Posts: 55

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

Wow, I never even considered limiting max range, but y'all are totally right.  I've had much more fun with 12 and 15 guns than the 30 guns planned for our space stations.  Is a hard cap better than changing the range math to just "encourage" shorter guns?

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

Boneless wrote:

Wow, I never even considered limiting max range, but y'all are totally right.  I've had much more fun with 12 and 15 guns than the 30 guns planned for our space stations.  Is a hard cap better than changing the range math to just "encourage" shorter guns?

I've never been a fan of telling players "you can't do that". IMHO, if "historically" units wouldn't operate in a certain way, there should be an in-game reason why players should mimic those tactics, rather than just legislating behavior. For example, in Grand Fleets, ships aren't required to maintain historical formation -- but failing to do so can seriously inhibit their efficiency.

I've been thinking about altering the point cost formula so that, instead of (Engines + Range), weapons are factored by:

Range x (Engines + Range)

If anyone wants to try this out and report back, that'd be cool.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2008-05-16
  • Posts: 45

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

We also perefer in our gaming group, the longest being 18.

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

Hmmm,
I will have to see of my other Florida Starmada Gamers want to limit maximum range to 18 hexes for starships.  We can reserve the 24 and 30 hex range for immobile spacestations.  This would parallel the long range of Phaser Fours in Star Fleet Battles.
I would be fine with this change. 8-)

  • Registered: 2007-07-29
  • Posts: 55

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

Did my 71 point flak boat just become 327 points with Cricket's suggestion?

Longbow
Hull 4
Engine 3
Shield 4,1,1,0,0,0
Flak burst R21 4+ 3/1/1, Minimum range, Fighter Exclusive, Area Effect
Dualed with
Flak Slug R21 4+ 1/1/1, Starship Exclusive
6x [G]

I was hoping for something more subtle, like a SU mod of (R/100) + 1.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

Boneless wrote:

Did my 71 point flak boat just become 327 points with Cricket's suggestion?

Well, if this were to become reality, we'd either (a) have to factor in a constant to adjust the final point value, or (b) get comfortable with some really large combat ratings.

I was hoping for something more subtle, like a SU mod of (R/100) + 1.

I'm not sure that something this subtle would be worth doing.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 330

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

I believe the main reason that most ships in the official books don't use above Range 18 is that anything above that is considered an optional rule.  If it's placed in an official ship, it's not optional anymore... or Dan likes to keep the ranges small!

Personally, the main reason I don't like range 24 and Range 30 weapons are for the same reason people have said.  It really takes away the need for maneuvering.  Stick some range 30 weapons in the AB arc with a really low Engine rating and just roll a bunch of dice to see who wins.

I like short range weaponry, modest Engine rating and try to stay away from screens.
-Bren

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 137

Re: What do most players use for Maximum Range?

cricket wrote:

I've been thinking about altering the point cost formula so that, instead of (Engines + Range), weapons are factored by:

Range x (Engines + Range)

If this is too strong, of course, you could try something like

Engines = (Range ^ k), where k is somewhere between 1 and 2.