• Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Topic: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

I was playing around with designs and I was wondering if there was any practical reason that additional searchlights could not be built into a design as special equipment. I'm thinking of trying the searchlight rules as something like sensors for a setting of higher tech than Iron Stars and envisioned smaller scouts that could have more "searchlights" than their hulls would otherwise indicate to locate the enemy fleet for the combat ships.  I this could be incorporated into the design process, what kind of SU and Orat cost would you recommend?  I'm always tinkering, but it's nice to have the thoughts of the guy who does it professionally  big_smile  Thanks!
Erik

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking... you want to vary the number of searchlights per hull point?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

cricket wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking... you want to vary the number of searchlights per hull point?

Yup. Instead of having a fixed number per hull point, have them as a piece of special equipment, or at the very least have a mechanic for adding them to those already given by hull rating. I'm envisioning soething like specialized scouts used to ferret out the enemy fleet. Nothing for general consumption, just for my own madness. I played around with some values on the shipyard, but I figured that since the game designer and grand poo-bah is available for questions like this I thought I might ask what his thoughts were  smile would this be considered abusing the privilege of having direct access to the Admiral of the Fleet despite my lowly rank :?:  :!:
Thanks,
Erik

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

Okay -- the difficulty is that I assumed all ships in the Iron Stars setting would have searchlights, and so I didn't bother trying to figure out a point cost for 'em. If everyone's got searchlights, the effect on relative point values is moot.

But thinking out loud, here... the effect of searchlights is to effectively cut the range to the target in half (or double the weapons' range). Range is not exactly a prime factor in the combat rating formula (it's [Range+Engines]) but for the sake of argument we can assume that a successful searchlight "lock-on" doubles the ORAT.

Problem: the average chance that a searchlight is successful varies with the range value of the weapon -- i.e. a searchlight will have a positive effect on targets within a range of 6 hexes much more often than on targets out to range 18.

So the impact on point cost is not only variable between ships, but between weapons batteries on the same ship.

I'm thinking it's not worth doing. If you want an effect for "scouts", I would look elsewhere...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

cricket wrote:

Okay -- the difficulty is that I assumed all ships in the Iron Stars setting would have searchlights, and so I didn't bother trying to figure out a point cost for 'em. If everyone's got searchlights, the effect on relative point values is moot.

But thinking out loud, here... the effect of searchlights is to effectively cut the range to the target in half (or double the weapons' range). Range is not exactly a prime factor in the combat rating formula (it's [Range+Engines]) but for the sake of argument we can assume that a successful searchlight "lock-on" doubles the ORAT.

Problem: the average chance that a searchlight is successful varies with the range value of the weapon -- i.e. a searchlight will have a positive effect on targets within a range of 6 hexes much more often than on targets out to range 18.

So the impact on point cost is not only variable between ships, but between weapons batteries on the same ship.

I'm thinking it's not worth doing. If you want an effect for "scouts", I would look elsewhere...

Care to point me in any particular direction?  wink
Honestly I was looking to enhance the "sensor" aspect of the game. I've been playing around with another attempt at converting the 2300AD/Starcruiser ships to AE and felt that searchlights might be swagged into sensors to enhance the "hide and seek with bazookas" feel of that game. Thing with that is there is a high degree of variability in senor values in that system and it is not tied 1:1 with ship size. I'll keep tinkering/testing and see if using searchlights straight-up as-is works out.
Thanks again for the replies!
Erik

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

It might be worth noting that if you are using searchlights, then you are MUCH easier to find than what you are looking for...

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

thedugan wrote:

It might be worth noting that if you are using searchlights, then you are MUCH easier to find than what you are looking for...

Agreed. The intent was to use searchlights as "Active Sensors" with all that entails.
Erik

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

Blacklancer99 wrote:

Agreed. The intent was to use searchlights as "Active Sensors" with all that entails.

And the "sensor mode" rules don't work for you?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

cricket wrote:
Blacklancer99 wrote:

Agreed. The intent was to use searchlights as "Active Sensors" with all that entails.

And the "sensor mode" rules don't work for you?

Nope. In my experience playing using them way they are constituted in the AE core rules, sensor modes don't add anything to the game. They just don't have the right "feel" to me. The searchlight mechanic has interested me for a while, because it seems to have the right "feel" of an active sensor system. In the current AE sensor rules, both sides have to be in the same mode for there to be an effect, and if one side has any advantage at all it will generally keep its ships in Active hoping the other guy does likewise, while the other guy turtles and hopes the other guy won't go passive only so that maybe he can even up the damage. It's just personal taste probably. But then again, I like critical damage and the Damage Control mechanic (ask MadSeason how much he hated it!  lol ), so we all have things to like and dislike in the options.
Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2009-08-03
  • Posts: 245

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

I sort of agree...  the Active/Passive sensor rules model the interaction between different types of sensors nicely, but they don't feel like you're actually trying to detect things.

Sidenote / further question: Do flotillas get searchlights?

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Question for Cricket on Searchlights

Ok, I have been playing around with a few different house rules for using Searchlights like sensors in a specific campaign setting, and this is about where I got to: Use searchlights like they are described in the Iron Stars supplement but call them "Active Sensors" and add the active sensor bonus from the optional rules. Passive sensors are similar with all engagements considered to be "in the dark", and using the passive rules from the main book. So far nothing dramatic, right? Then to simulate "scouts" with more powerful or accurate or sophisticated or just more extensive sensors give vessels an additional searchlight/active sensor for each 100 SUs of Science on board (rounding to the nearest 100 for determination purposes). I also had the idea that if a ship was not "illuminated", you could not see its current status/data card. In other words, if a ship took damage you would have to illuminate it to see exactly which systems were damaged (this is really only useful against ships with several weapons per battery; you won't know exactly which gun in which arc was knocked out unless the target is illuminated), and since I was planning on using critical hits in this setting, you would not be able to "see" the result of critical hits/saves unless or until the target is illuminated.
Keep in mind this is for a specific setting and not an attempt to add  new rules to general use in the games I play. That in mind, what do people think?
Cheers,
Erik