Topic: anyone try a truly vector system?

First of all, please accept my apologies if this has been discussed before.

Has anyone tried applying a truly vector system to Starmada?  I'm thinking of something like the system used in Mayday, Billiant Lances, or Battle Rider (part of the Traveler series published by GDW).  In this system, you have a previous, current, and future location.  The future location is derived from the past and current locations.  You can then use the ship's engines to alter the future location.

Has anyone tried to play Starmada using such a movement system?

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

There's been several discussions about a vector movement system - both here and on the old yahoo group - in the past. It's not a concern of mine, but I'm sure sometime in the next few days someone will pipe up....just stand by....
wink

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

One of the downsides of such a system is that it is seen by many as "fiddly". More streamlined, less realistic methods of movement are more likely to have been tried, such as the ever popular Full Thrust system. if you try it, be sure to share.

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

I would argue that the Starmada movement system IS a true vector system, minus the fiddly bits.

However, if you wanted to put the fiddly bits back in, I don't think it would have a detrimental effect on the game.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

I'm biased as it was my first game, but I've always liked Hard Vacuum's vector system. Only problem for Starmada is it has multiple engine directions (one in each 60 degrees and a pair of 'spin' thrusters), but it could work...

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

I guess I'd be one of those who'd argue that vector systems don't add anything at all.
Ultimately, a ship is moving from point A, to point B, to point C, and so on.
And in doing so, when the ship arrives at each of those "points" it's going to have a facing.
The facing will determine which weapons the ship will be able to bring to bear on any given target.

So...
Regardless of which movement system is used, the game is about maneuver, and about being the most effective at bringing weapons to bear within the confines of a given movement system.
For me, cinematic movement is just fine, and doesn't make me feel like any less of a tactician because I'm not using a vector based system.

That being said, I probably shouldn't have even posted to this thread.  big_smile
Kevin

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

A friend and I did a conversion of the Full Thrust vector system over to hex based movement with some success. Basically, you start by moving your vector from the previous turn and then following the orders you give your ship, which are thrust forward, thrust backwards (2 thrust), and pivot (2 thrust per hexside). After you're done moving you record the vector from your starting position that turn and repeat the procedure next turn.

The original system allowed 'pushes' to port and starboard but after playing a couple of times, we eliminated the them since it caused some weird issues with reversing on the cheap by doing a pivot followed by a push. Other than that, it seems to work fine. The only issue people seem to have with it is going too fast and tending to overshoot, especially if they don't realize their engines will probably be hit during a battle pass.

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

Cathy and I used the Mayday/Triplanetary vector system in a couple of games at Archon in 2002 or 2003 (I remember Kevin and Dan studiously ignoring us)(we didn't take it personally). This was before the new movement rules used in SAE were introduced. And we used it for our home games. (one of the advantages of having a wife who liked wargaming)

We used the movement points as thrust points and each facing change required a thrust point. Whereas Triplanetary allowed only one thrust point to be expended per turn, we allowed speed to be the max thrust. The mini/counter had to face in the direction of your thrust burn at the end of the burn unless you spent thrust points to rotate to a new heading, which if you think about it, automatically limited the thrust vs time  without any ""fiddling".

It worked very well. One interesting side "effect" was you left movement plots all over the map. (Triplanetary uses a marker to plot movements on the grid; Mayday uses counters)-you feel like you're actually plotting TMAs in a CIC.

We noticed a couple of things:
-we seemed to maneuver more than we did using essential Starmada (version Prehistoric)
-In the final analysis the game feel was different, but today using SAE movements would yield very similar results. (Cathy spanked me hard).

That said, there was something very cool about drawing your ships' movements while watching your opponent's target tracks firm up.

For those unfortunate enough not have played these GDW games, a short expo on Triplanetary can be found here:
http://www.kentaurus.com/triplan.htm

Cathy loved playing Triplanetary, especially the race scenario.

Re: anyone try a truly vector system?

Weird. I'd just started a thread on almost the same topic a few days ago over on Star Ranger:

http://www.star-ranger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6158

I like the SAE movement, but the Classic/optional's more to my liking. The less math, the better. Think I'll give the Triplanetary a try (an old Mayday hand, the plotted moves sound kewl.) Thanks for posting.

I'm waiting to hear someone say, "Starship movement? There's an app for that," but no such luck. Yet.