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Topic: Question about Arcs

I just getting into WWI naval gaming and I have a question.

I'm reading through the Grandfleet rules sold by Majestic twelve. I noticed in the stats for the Moltke class battlecruiser it showed that the side turrents can shoot to both Port and Starboard arcs.

I really thought that the side turrents on most Dreadnoughts could not shoot across the ship for fear of causing damage and such.

That is why more modern designs moved all the turrents to the centerline.

Can anyone confirm this for me.

Of simply stated was it the full broadside of a Moltke class battlecruiser, 8 or 10 guns.

Also are there any ships that did shoot this way. I see the British Invincible class battlecruisers also have a similar turret arrangement.

Thanks

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Question about Arcs

Louie N wrote:

I'm reading through the Grandfleet rules sold by Majestic twelve. I noticed in the stats for the Moltke class battlecruiser it showed that the side turrents can shoot to both Port and Starboard arcs.

I really thought that the side turrents on most Dreadnoughts could not shoot across the ship for fear of causing damage and such.

Dunno about this... Kevin did all the ship chart creation.

I assume he'll have an answer for you -- but if you think it's wrong, there's no reason you can't designate the side turrets as firing into ACE and BDF instead of ACDE and BCDF.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Question about Arcs

Kevin Smith wrote:

> Well, I'm the guilty party. smile
> But I was thinking that, in reality, most ships classes with
> offside turrets COULD shoot across the deck. But that there
> were a few ships classes which couldn't. There are one or two
> British classes which, according to my Conway's source book,
> could not shoot the offside turrets across the deck because
> of the likelihood of deck stressing.
> With respect to the Moltke class in particular, I don't know
> that this was an issue.
> So I guess I'd allow it.

Well, there you go, then. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-04-02
  • Posts: 34

Re: Question about Arcs

I would guess (and it is just a guess) that any ship that could fire across the deck would do it in combat.  While you may not want to stress the deck or damage the superstructure just to give your gunners practice in firing that way, I can't imagine a commander leaving 20-25% of his guns out of action just to avoid needing deck repairs later.

Note that axial fire caused the same sort of problems (e.g., Dreadnought didn't generally fire 6 guns directly ahead or astern).  So if you are really going to reduce Moltke's ACDE guns to ACE, you might have to consider reducing them to just plain C.  But I wouldn't do either one.

5 Reply by Guest

  • Guest
  • Guest

Re: Question about Arcs

Thanks for the replays guys and very nice game system by the way.

I asked the question because I haven't found any evidence of them actually firing cross deck.   I did remember reading about the ships with all centerline turrents having an advanatge because they could bring their full broaside to bear. 

So I myself would probally limit the cross deck firing, but it's no big deal. 

It all fun and games.

By the way I'm reading "Castles of Steel" right now.  Classic reading for anyone interested in this era of gaming.

  • Registered: 2005-04-02
  • Posts: 34

Re: Question about Arcs

Good idea.  I'd never thought about looking for evidence that cross-deck firing was actually done.  I'm trying to think when there would have been an opportunity.  Falklands and Dogger Bank were stern chases. 

I guess I'd look at Jutland, particularly the German battlecruisers and the British dreadnoughts Colossus and Hercules.  Did the British 12" battlecruisers ever get positioned to fire broadsides?

The field of fire on the off-side was severely restricted.  I think it was only 100 degrees for Invincible, a little more for the others.  So you'd really need to be about broadside-on to get to use it.  The centerline turrets would be easier to bring in to action, I think, as well as being better protected.

  • Registered: 2005-04-02
  • Posts: 34

Re: Question about Arcs

Of course, having dismissed the possibility of finding evidence of cross-deck fire at Falklands, I then stumble upon http://www.steelnavy.com/ISWInvincible.htm, which says:

In spite of the design in which cross deck fire from the amidships turret on the unengaged side, the 12-inch guns of P turret did fire across the ship at von Spee's cruisers. Of course every time P turret fired, the marine crew of Q turret were dazed by the concussion.

I'm not sure where they got that, or if it should be considered "proof", but most of their information is referenced to Battlecruiser Invincible, The History of the First Battlecruiser 1909-16, by V.E. Tarrant, 1986.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Question about Arcs

Louie N wrote:

Thanks for the replays guys and very nice game system by the way.

Thanks!

I had my doubts with all the stuff Kevin made me put in (heh smile ), but I think it turned out really well.

By the way I'm reading "Castles of Steel" right now.  Classic reading for anyone interested in this era of gaming.

Good to know -- I read "Dreadnought" (the 'prequel' to CoS) and loved it, but my copy of Castles of Steel is still sitting on my bookshelf, the spine uncracked.

I need to start reading again...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

9 Reply by Guest

  • Guest
  • Guest

Re: Question about Arcs

Once you start reading it you won't put it down.  trust me.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Question about Arcs

Snippage...

cricket wrote:

I read "Dreadnought" (the 'prequel' to CoS) and loved it, but my copy of Castles of Steel is still sitting on my bookshelf, the spine uncracked.

I need to start reading again...

Oh man, you're missing out - great book - just as good as Dreadnought.

Of course, I checked it out of the library....