Topic: Question about fleet composition.

I've been reading through the rulebook, but have not yet played a game.

From what I've read so far, I don't see any real reason to take advantage of the kind of fleet diversity that I find so appealing in the (for example) GZG fleets.

Is there some compelling gameplay reason I'm not seeing for taking ships from the lowly corvette all the way up to a superdreadnaught?

I would like to hear your anecdotes or experiences.

Re: Question about fleet composition.

Using AE rules, heavy ships (at least light cruiser) are definitely more resilient than smaller (frigates and destroyers). Usually, the former have a lot more of everything, except maybe engines, whilst the former will usually have a low armor value. Even with powerful engines, they don't last long on a table unless you keep them out of reach, but then, as they usually have short range weapons, they are just lost points. Usually, when I take small ships, that's for two reasons. Fun, but mostly because I still have some unused points.
So, unless designing a fleet with a lot of small (1 hull), unarmored and lowly armed (one weapon only) ships (a lot of them!), it is usually more interesting, IMHO, to have heavier ships. Note that a ship with an armor value of 5 is much much more expensive than the same one with a armor value of 4 (normal, it can be near invulnerable).
Also, beware of creating ships 'too powerful and too armored'. It could kill a game. But that's just my opinion.

BTW, what do you prefer, play with existing universes created by you or other people, or create your own fleet versus a fleet created by you opponent?

Marc

Re: Question about fleet composition.

Ozymandias wrote:

From what I've read so far, I don't see any real reason to take advantage of the kind of fleet diversity that I find so appealing in the (for example) GZG fleets.
Is there some compelling gameplay reason I'm not seeing for taking ships from the lowly corvette all the way up to a superdreadnaught?
I would like to hear your anecdotes or experiences.

We haven't played enough yet to be able to fully answer your question.
One thing we have found that's somewhat significant though, is that little ships are a nice way to up the number of maneuvering elements a fleet has. If you're going to use written movement, then this won't help. If you're going to use the sequential, alternating movement mechanic, then it's nice being able to maneuver some of your ships after your opponent has finished for the turn.
We've also started experimenting with the Escort ability, and having smaller ships with Escort may prove to be fairly effective at screening the bigger ships until they're within range.
I'm sure there'll end up being multiple reasons why you wouldn't want to simply have two or three fairly powerful ships lined up against six or seven that have specific uses or abilities.
Kevin

Re: Question about fleet composition.

underling wrote:

We've also started experimenting with the Escort ability, and having smaller ships with Escort may prove to be fairly effective at screening the bigger ships until they're within range.
Kevin

Tell me more about that, please.

marc

Re: Question about fleet composition.

BTW, what do you prefer, play with existing universes created by you or other people, or create your own fleet versus a fleet created by you opponent?

Either is good. Right now I'm planning to stat out the nsl ships from gzg.

We've also started experimenting with the Escort ability, and having smaller ships with Escort may prove to be fairly effective at screening the bigger ships until they're within range. Kevin

Tell me more.

Re: Question about fleet composition.

Ozymandias wrote:

Either is good. Right now I'm planning to stat out the nsl ships from gzg.

Something has been done for GZG here: http://www.mj12games.com/forum/viewtopi … amp;t=2135
Maybe you will find what you seek, or you could be inspired by what has been done.

Marc

Re: Question about fleet composition.

I have been playing two or three  16to20-hull BB sized ships with shields 4, escorted by 4-hull DDs with shields one.  These DDs have "Laser Cannon" that have no piercing or any other special abilities.  They do have armored hull as do all of my other ships.  The DDs give extra firepower, especially more AA if needed.  All the weapons of the BBs & the DDs have range 18 & 3+ to hit.
I also have made 2-hull torpedo boats with higher speed and shorter-ranged "Torpedos" that do extra hull damage.  They stay at range, even using EM.  Then when the biggger ships are engaged, the rush in and fire their torpedoes.  These torps are "g" arc onlu, but have over thrusters.  I have not built any crusers in a long time.  I like BBs & DDs.  If I use fighters, I use the Long Range ones and don't have any carrier designs.
This usually works; but sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.  Just playing the game using ships I designed is a Great Deal of fun for me.

Re: Question about fleet composition.

I must agree that light ships in AE are mostly useful for spending the last couple of points you have left after buying heavies, in most scenarios, and even that use is attenuated if you allow independent fighters at 55 points a squadron.  However, the (generally) higher speed of small, escorty ships can be more useful in scenarios like Patrol and Breakout, where you want to get them across the board (either just off the enemy edge for Breakout, or to and from the enemy forces in Breakout, where optimal attacker strategy is to sit at their board edge and wait).

Re: Question about fleet composition.

I think this depends on setting.  In our B5 games we take smaller craft because they are normally faster and more manoeuvrable.  With bigger ships you can end up out of position and arc, particularly when there's a lot of terrain.  So you can use the smaller ships to cover certain "blind spots". 

We've also used them quite effectivley as strike ships to "charge" up the board to attack long range ships that are causing issues.  Ships with energy mines etc.

For comaparison a large ship for us is 500+, we have ships that cost 150 ish that are great for the jobs described above.

Re: Question about fleet composition.

madpax wrote:
underling wrote:

We've also started experimenting with the Escort ability, and having smaller ships with Escort may prove to be fairly effective at screening the bigger ships until they're within range.
Kevin

Tell me more about that, please.
marc

It looks like this was never replied to.
Currently the Escort ability works in a similar fashion (I believe) to how it does in SFO.
Line of sight is blocked when it is traced through a hex with a ship with the Escort ability.
I'm not sure if this works both ways (blocks both enemy and friendly fire), but I think it does.
Kevin

Re: Question about fleet composition.

underling wrote:

Currently the Escort ability works in a similar fashion (I believe) to how it does in SFO.
Line of sight is blocked when it is traced through a hex with a ship with the Escort ability.
I'm not sure if this works both ways (blocks both enemy and friendly fire), but I think it does.
Kevin

In SFO it specifies enemy fire is blocked, last I saw, the new rules do not actually say that it is only enemy fire. I have suggested a little clarification.
It is good that the "little ships" have found another reason to be targeted. smile

Paul

Re: Question about fleet composition.

OldnGrey wrote:
underling wrote:

Currently the Escort ability works in a similar fashion (I believe) to how it does in SFO.
Line of sight is blocked when it is traced through a hex with a ship with the Escort ability.
I'm not sure if this works both ways (blocks both enemy and friendly fire), but I think it does.
Kevin

In SFO it specifies enemy fire is blocked, last I saw, the new rules do not actually say that it is only enemy fire. I have suggested a little clarification.
It is good that the "little ships" have found another reason to be targeted. smile
Paul

You're correct in that the rules, as of now, do not specify that it is only friendly fire that is blocked.

I may not be remembering correctly, but I believe Dan's original intention was that Escort would only block enemy fire. After some discussion, it was thought that this might make Escort a bit too powerful, which is the reason that the wording is the way it is now.

And yep, the life expectancy of the crew on a small escort isn't going to be very long.  wink
Kevin

Re: Question about fleet composition.

I think blocking LOS for both makes a lot of sense, actually.  To block off a piece of space as big as a hex, it'd have to throw up some serious ECM, which might reasonably be expected to mung friendly fire as well.  Plus, with alternating movement, this isn't that huge a problem - you just move your escorts last to the places best for you and worst for enemy.  Would be a mess with pre-plotted movement, but that's OK.

In short: I like it!  Now just need to find out what Scout does...

Re: Question about fleet composition.

A question: 
If the escort that is blocking fire to an escorted ship has Stealth and is at long range from hostile ships, can it still block hostile fire and use its Stealth? That is, can it block fire at the ship it is escorting but not be fired on because it has stealth if the hostiles are at long range?

Re: Question about fleet composition.

I thought it came up that in the next iteration, Stealth now works like ECM / Countermeasures (generates negative column shifts), except that it isn't damaged by crippling...  Don't know if that's still the case, but if it is, then escort stealth ranging is not a problem.

Re: Question about fleet composition.

Nomad wrote:

I thought it came up that in the next iteration, Stealth now works like ECM / Countermeasures (generates negative column shifts), except that it isn't damaged by crippling...  Don't know if that's still the case, but if it is, then escort stealth ranging is not a problem.

Nomad is correct.
Stealth is now simply a column shift, so ships with it can be targeted at long range.
Kevin