• Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Topic: New terrain--warp points

I've finished the ship designs on another supplement (yay!), but for two of those powers, I wanted them to be fighting a space opera-like conflict, over interstellar distances, without FTL drive (this setting is a low-ish tech setting), and for that I had warp points. Similar to Starfire, they were points that enabled FTL travel between stars without any need for actual FTL drives. I also wanted them to have warp-point assaults, with defending forces using defence satellites and monitors (ships too large to travel through warp points) to counter the enemy assault force.

[size=150]Warp Point (Terrain)[/size]

A warp point is a point in space where faster-than-light travel is possible without the use of some FTL drive.

In Starmada, warp points are defined by their size, from size 1 to 3, and are similar to the same-size black hole as to the area of a game board they cover.

There are two types of warp point: active and inert.

A ship that ends its turn inside the 'event horizon' of an active warp point is considered to have left the game board, with VPs being awarded as the victory conditions state (to the opposing side if normal, to the ship owners' side if playing either the 'Breakout' or 'The Patrol' scenarios).

A ship that ends its turn inside the event horizon of an inert warp point is immediately destroyed.

Anti-Gravitational 'Pull'

Similar to black holes, warp points exert an influence on ships. However, while black holes pull ships in, warp points push ships away from them. If a ship finds itself within the warp point's anti-gravitational 'pull', it is moved directly away from the warp point, using the same table as the black holes to determine how far away they are moved. Ships can ignore this movement if they perform a 'full stop' on their engines for two full turns while approaching the warp point.

Warp Point Assault

Ships may enter a battle through a warp point, with information on how they do so left to the designer of the scenario. The following takes place for all ships that traverse a warp point:

1) Ships may not move, cloak or take any offensive action on the first turn--they may, however, use their weapons for defensive purposes, such as attacking fighters that are attacking them. In addition, shields, ECM and all other traits and equipment (such as stealth) are operational.

2) On the second turn, ships may undertake any operations as normal.

---

Comments? Suggestions?

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: New terrain--warp points

I played Starfire for many years before discovering Full Thrust, then STARMADA.
I like the idea of warp points as an alternative to FTL.  You could require hyperdrive on a ship to be able to use the warp point.  system defense ships wouldn't have it and be less costly.
:idea: As an idea, the first turn a ship emerges from the warp point, give all of their weapons a -4 on firing to reflect the electronics being a unstabalized by the transition.  This way the ship is not totally defenseless.  The second turn a -2 on weapons fire would work.  And on the third turn, all is normal...

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

Hmm, I like the fire modifiers. Not the idea of hyperdrives being required to traverse warp points, though, as I've already designed the ships and don't want to do them again...:)

However, for a general warp point-for-FTL setting, that could work...

Maybe have two versions of the system, one where travel through warp points is based on if you have hyperdrive or not, and another (for my setting) based on a minimum and maximum hull point range. If a ship falls between those ranges, it can traverse a hull point, if not, it can't (would allow ships like those massive ships in the last two Starfire books (Exodus and Extremis) to be modelled)

And for that you could also have the three warp point sizes determine what hull sizes can traverse. Size 1 warp points would have maybe a 20% reduction of maximum (so if the range was 3 to 30, size 1 warp points would only allow up to hull 24), with size-3 warp points having a 20% increase (so in the example above, that would mean an increase to hull 36).

Combine the two together and you've got the ability to have system defence ships of dreadnought-size, and swift warp point couriers that could travel through warp points.

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: New terrain--warp points

Oooooooooh, bloodbath warp point assaults finally come to Starmada!  wink

I like the idea of having warp points in  the mix as several sci-fi settings have them, and I also like the idea of using them to "control" a campaign. I also think there is a place for both the hyperdrive-less variety and those that use a system (gate drives?) to "open" the warp point to allow the ship to pass through. I think a fire modifier is a good/simple way to handle the disorientation which is typically associated with warp point travel. Personally, I would also restrict warp points to ships and not allow fighters/shuttles/small craft to traverse the warp point (hey, we need assault carriers!). Suddenly that launch rate has meaning as  smile
Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2006-07-24
  • Posts: 158

Re: New terrain--warp points

I love this idea, especially for a campaign setting.

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

After a couple of days, while these warp points would make for an interesting addition, I think they don't act like Starfire warp points at all. Starfire warp points, from my reading of the novels, are small points in space and exert gravitational fields rather than anti-gravitational fields. With that in mind, here's an addition to the terrain:

[size=150]Warp Point (Starfire-type)[/size]

Warp points cover a single hex, no matter their type. There are at least two types spread over two classes, and can be as many as ten/twelve.

The two classes are Open and Closed. Open warp points generate a small gravitational field, that doesn't affect ships, but does affect smaller objects. Closed warp points do not generate a gravitational field at all.

The other variable in warp point type is the ship size limit. The first is unlimited, but additional types can be added (for both open and closed) that prohibits ships above a certain size. The minimum ship size is hull 3, but can be raised if desired.

Gravitational field

Open warp points exert a small gravitational field. Ships have enough station-keeping drives to survive, but mines do not.

Any mine adjacent to an open warp point are moved into the hex. Any mines inside an open warp point are then destroyed on the next turn, before they make any attacks.

Closed warp points do not exert a gravitational field, and mines may be laid anywhere, including on top of the warp point.

Simultaneous transit

Ships may make simultaneous transit, but the risk of interpolation is possible.

Ships arriving through a warp point are randomly assigned to a hex surrounding the warp point. For every ship assigned to a hex already containing a ship, roll a d6. If the roll is a 6, roll again. If the second roll is a 6 (or 5-6), the ships interpolate and both are destroyed.

Ships are permitted to stack for the first turn after warp point transit without penalty, but the second turn they are subject to the rules of stacking as laid out in S:NE.

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

Expansion on warp point types (Example only)

Say I wanted to have in a campaign several different types of warp point. I also want to restrict small ships of death.

I set the minimum ship hull size at hull 6. All warp point (Starfire-type) will have this minimum limitation.

I decide on four additional ship hull size limitations, and for that I'll call them Type 1 through to 5, with 1 being only affected by the minimum hull limit.

Type 2 have a maximum hull limit of 45. Most ships should fit through, but those juggernauts or monitors won't...

Type 3 have a maximum hull limit of 36. More restrictive, but shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Type 4 have a maximum hull limit of 24. Now we're closing the gap...

Type 5 have a maximum limit of 15. That means that only vessels of hull 6 to 15 could traverse a Type 5.

All classes also have two classes--Open and Closed. A Type 3O would be an Open Type 3, while a Type 5C would be a Closed Type 5 (and pretty useless)

EDIT: To clarify, this is just an example, not an actual 'rules decision'

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: New terrain--warp points

Why Hull size 6 as a minimum? Just an arbitrary choice to prevent little ships from transits? If you're looking to model the Starfire universe are you planning on making Hull 6 gunboat "flotillas" that would then be capable of transits? You could do the same with pinnaces I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, I really do like the idea of warp points and how they change the tactics and strategies of games, but I feel like they need to be simplified a bit more for Starmada, probably by removing the open/closed distinctions, and I would forget the size limitations as well. That's just me though, and if you are trying to more closely model the Starfire universe I see no problem with them as put forth, just a little more fiddly.
Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

That was my own example, in an attempt to clarify the post above, not me saying "You shall only use these warp points!". The default minimum would be set at hull 3 and the default maximum as limitless (or hull 75, for me at least, which works out to SAE hull 50, and even I didn't design hull 50 ships. Hull 40, yes. Hull 50? Nope...:D)

However, additional warp points could be added, primarily for allowing people who want to model the battles in the latest two books in the Starfire series. In them, super-monitors and devastators were too large for certain warp points. Don't want to say much more as they're fairly recent and 'spoilers'

The open/closed is again primarily for those people that want to play out a Starfire-type warp point assault. There were a couple of closed warp point assaults in the books, where the assaulting force had to deal with mines as soon as they entered the system.

Basically, I'm laying the foundations for people who want to have their own choice. They could have just one type of warp point, or they might want to restrict having the Death Star come in to take a look around, or they might want to have a setting where the only ships that can make transit are kilometre-long behemoths and normal ships have to hitch a ride (maybe a Dune-esque setting?)

To finish off, the default would be Type 1O, an unlimited, open warp point. Adding closed warp points is optional (but if you're doing a warp point assault based on Starfire, it might be added as a matter of course). Adding maximum hull limits for other warp points is also optional.

I'm writing up a document that contains both types of warp point that I've posted up. I'm going to clarify some things (I've already taken BeowulfJB's suggestion and transferred it in place of my own rules on transit) and I'm going to make sure that other types of warp point are put under an 'optional' heading, so that if you want to play a warp point assault but don't care too much about size restrictions, you don't have to worry)

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

And, with some minor tweaks, here it is. This is version 1.01, and I'd like to have people's opinions before I'd make if 'official', so to speak...:D

EDIT: replaced by version 1.02 (on second page)

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: New terrain--warp points

I did not realize that more Starfire novels had been written.  The last ones I read were the ones on the Arachnid invasion and the Terran Federation Civil War where the Fringe successfully succeedes (Insurrection?).
Were there novels written after that?  By David Webber?
Cheers

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

Yes, two novels after Insurrection, but as you can tell from the wiki page for Starfire, Weber didn't write them, although his co-author did co-write them:

"A follow-up novel, Exodus, co-written by Steve White and Shirley Meier was released in December 2006. The latest novel, Extremis, was co-written by Steven White and Charles E. Gannon and published in May 2011."

They're fairly interesting, but not as technically focused as the first four. Exodus is available free online, I believe, but I had to loan Extremis from the library.

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

I realised that, although Blacklancer had mentioned launch rates, I forgot to include them in the document. For now, I'm thinking equivalent launch rates to drones, but I'm throwing that out there to see if anyone else has other ideas...:)

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: New terrain--warp points

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

"A follow-up novel, Exodus, co-written by Steve White and Shirley Meier was released in December 2006. The latest novel, Extremis, was co-written by Steven White and Charles E. Gannon and published in May 2011."

Those are the same story. Interesting, although I'd like to see some novels on the begining of the Starfire era, where fleets made of one light cruiser and some escoert were considered as 'small'. Here, many monitors and a lot of escort are considered small...

Marc

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

Yeah, parts one and two. I don't know why, but to me I preferred the stories of The Stars at War I and II than Exodus and Extremis, but maybe that's just me...

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: New terrain--warp points

Excellent!  I will seek these novels out when I get back to Jacksonville later in the week.

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

And so, four months later, a new version of the document has been prepared. It includes launch rates for fighters and flotillas.

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: New terrain--warp points

I like them; clear and concise but covering enough variation to be flexible and interesting. Good work!
Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: New terrain--warp points

Thanks, I try and think of every eventuality...:D