16VPs seems awfully expensive for a destroyer.

Would the Japanese pay that amount for a destroyer?

Would Britian give a temporary ally lightning projectors?

Won't THAT lil bit be an unpleasant surprise to some red ruskies, eh?  :twisted:

I admit this worries somewhat as well.  Since there are no rules to prevent 'tech-sloshing' beyond a general consensus on this board on what each nation has there is a distinct chance of a cookie-cutter effect and cherry-picking of the best technologies (like the Danes and Fire Arrows, perfectly effective but not very fluff-compatible, imho) as time goes on.  Now I don't mind the flexability this does allow (Like with the Danes, they can become whatever John wants them to become) , and it's true that in the contempary naval development scene ships were differentiated primarily by design qualities they empahasised rather then technology they used (and many weapons were sold on the open market anyway).  In addition with number of canon ships currently available the navies are still fairly different in pratical doctraine.  So I can't really say that I want a new set of rules dictacting who has what, just that I hope that as the game develops we see particular attention paid to how the navies really are different beyond thier individual ships.  So far I think MJ12 has been doing a great job, so my level of worry is only moderate. 

As for the destroyer itself, it seems pretty effective.  Though I've noticed that there's been a push towards much larger destroyers recently.  In the first book a big destroyer was 3 Hull Spaces- now this new Japanese design is a big some of the light crusiers!

-Will

The development of destroyers I think, would see bigger hulls.  Look at the German destroyers developed in the 1930s, compared to what was seen in WWI. 

This advances the idea a little faster, but the idea of larger destroyers is not without precedent.

This is going to happen; heck my experience with Starmada tells me that y'all won't be happy until a battleship can have 50 hull..

Seriously... there's bound to be some size creep, especially in the smaller classes. But at the same time, this is going to be a fleet-specific thing; what the Japanese might consider a destroyer (albeit a large one), another nation might call a light cruiser. This happened in the age of sail all the time -- the US Navy was notorious for "mislabeling" its ships, annoying the Brits to no end...

But as long as the combat rating remains reliable, it really won't matter if my DDs are smaller than yours...

Historically, yes... but within the game, since there's a soft cap on hull sizes at 35, the natural tendency towards larger and more powerful units will likely take the largest toll on the bottom end of the scale.

I've been wondering exactly how to "officially" keep the navies distinct, and discourage everybody from having the largest possible ships in each type... but solutions evade me. Perhaps it's just a matter of continued diligence when putting together the official materials.

This Brody's Annual project may be more difficult than anticipated...

It was actually a 50-50 as to what the Danes would get...literally.

I rolled a dice. Odds would mean the Danes got fire arrows, evens hale rockets. I rolled a one

And it actually makes the Tordenskjold less effective. Shes designed for commerce protection and therefore needs more accurate projectiles to hit vessels such as the Huszar and destroyers, not better penetrators.

And, as to frigatesfan's issue, I don't think it'll matter. If you see a design that really blurs what you think is acceptable, don't use it. For instance, Im not going to post a British ship with heat rays, or a German ship with lightning projectors, or a Chinese ship with Hale Rockets. Nor would I play with a ship that tech-mixes two different 'blocs' of tech. However, designing an entirely different race (like, for instance, the Metal Men produced on this board a while ago) you can do whatever you like. Have Heat Rays and Lightning Projectors on the same ship. Use two totally different rocket types on your rocket frigate. Mount a dozen keel bombards if you want. As Dan said, keep the designs coming...:D

I don't see the problem Britian heavily suppiled the Japanese Navy as way of having far east influence.

The warships supplied either directly or indirecrtly where the best at the time, so the chance of supplying a ship with lighting projectors is good within the setting, after all they will be utterly dependent of the Brits for spares.

I don't want the fleets to be cookie cutter, but at the same time, if humans can build it it won't be a huge amount of time before the various countries begin attempts to reverse engineer, if the game reachs the 1930's period, then I would think most of the tech will end up being generic, how its deployed and used will be the intresting part.

Well, I would have simply selected hale rockets since they seem a more widespread tech, and the Fire Arrows so far are restricted primarily to White Russian and Chinese.  However, as a I said there's nothing at all 'wrong' with Danes using fire arrows from some objective sense, I'd just have designed the Danes (or anyone else) differently if I had written them.  Of course, that's the fun of sharing designs here, seeing how other people take the same idea and run in very different directions with it!

-Will

My only concern is seeing a lightning projector ship with a poison gas battery and hale rockets and fire arrows too across the table.

That about sums up my concern here.

I actually enjoy the ship ideas people are throwing about. My Japanese destroyers are 10 thrust ships. That's how I want to play them.  And I'll stick a canon escort with them.

This is my last post on the subject. On to better things. Or the sub discussion... :wink:

I had to come back for this.  So sue me.....

I don't think there's anything wrong with the canon ships.  It's just a matter of taste on his part, which is cool.  They ain't gonna be for everyone. 

For me, I have a conceptual problem with some of the unofficial ships -- simply because they don't feel right, universe wise to me. Below isn't meant to be contentious, it's just how I'm perceiving things.

All of these factions, or nearly all of them, are suddenly fielding BIG hybrid battleships/carriers with powerful guns (primary and secondary), rockets to take down FACs, and attack craft of their own.  As if these minor players have been taking notes the instant tactical innovations appear on the scene, and then commission ships to address every and all contingency.  The Greeks aren't playing catch up.  They're fielding something that can go toe-to-toe with anyone.  So are the Danes, and Siam.  And I just dunno about that. The names are different, but in a ton of ways they're remarkably similar to each other.

They're great math wise (very efficient with their hull space), and yeah, you'll be hard pressed to design a ship that doesn't get hurt trying to take them on.  The Danes are monsters.  But they don't feel right to me, and being the fluff guy, I like ships with a fixed mindset in place.  And these tend to feel the same (no offense).  I'm not talking about "this ship has a lightning projector, and I thought that was limited to the Brits."  I mean, Siam has a big 20+ ship hull with powerful primaries and a pair of FACs.  The Danes have a big BB with powerful primaries and FACs, along with a Heavy Cruiser with big primaries and FACs.  Everyone carries rockets.  Most of them has a D6 (X4 or X5) torpedo.  Not trying to pound it into the ground, just making a point because to me THIS, rather than folks sharing a bit of kit here and there, makes everything taste the same.

As for Canon ships,

The Turks have some big ships, but they aren't groundbreaking, and their design overall isn't uniform.  It's a mish mash.

The Germans, to me, look like commerce raiders.  Lots of guns that could decimate cruisers and light vessels, but not many big bruisers.

The Austrians were also built with a specific philosophy in mind.  Decent gunnery ships, but nothing spectacular, they were meant to rely heavily on FACs. You better not throw the Hunyadi against a battleship, and the Ersatz is a powerful battlewagon, but it's not a FAC hybrid.  Because in the Merchant War, FACs are brand new, and I didn't envision many folks coming up with such an idea for a capital ship.

The Italians did, though, a couple of years later with De Monarchia.  Again, they're built around something that seemed to be a theme in real life.  Lots of primarires, and fast, but they've got a glass jaw.

The British, in my mind, are great because they are a mixture of a lot of different approaches, but then, they're the faction blazing the most trails.  BTW -- I would put the new Cornwallis and Nelson against just about any vessel. 

The ABCs have some good ships, but not that many big hulls. The Spanish likewise.  The Spanish have a ton of little fellas.  Feels right as they're not a financial powerhouse, according to the fluff.

Maybe we need some 'financial rules' (ALA Starfire) to limit nations in what ships they can build....
:-)