Topic: Info about the Martians...

John Voysey wrote:

> Is there any widely accepted 'designs' for Martian vessels?
> Specifically, for the period in which Iron Stars is taking place in?

Not exactly. There is "Edison's Conquest of Mars", which does contain (allegedly) the first space battle ever written... but other details within the book make it less than likely that I will consider it "canon".

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Info about the Martians...

cricket wrote:
John Voysey wrote:

> Is there any widely accepted 'designs' for Martian vessels?
> Specifically, for the period in which Iron Stars is taking place in?

Not exactly. There is "Edison's Conquest of Mars", which does contain (allegedly) the first space battle ever written... but other details within the book make it less than likely that I will consider it "canon".

Hmm, What if "Edison's Conquest of Mars" was a know-to-be sensationalized or exaggerated account. After all, there is "War and Peace" as compared to the Flashman novels, for example.

Re: Info about the Martians...

Hmm, What if "Edison's Conquest of Mars" was a know-to-be sensationalized or exaggerated account. After all, there is "War and Peace" as compared to the Flashman novels, for example.

I was about to suggest the same idea- say most of the book is of 'questionable accuracy' but the section with the space combat was actually pulled from interviews with some of the sailors present, and so that part is mostly factual.  That way anything we don't want to be 'canon' can be discarded as the result of the author hoping to sell a few more copies, and the parts we want to keep can be the 'good parts'.

-Will

Re: Info about the Martians...

Well...having read through bits of Edison's Conquest...I can see why Wells never gave it his blessing.  In part it's a propaganda piece...vaulting humans ahead of Martians deus ex machina IMO, which is probably part of what the newspaper editor(s) were after...a feel good adventure piece.  While a very good piece of writing, it just doesn't sound appropriate to Wells' fiction and like as not rather irked him from what I've read of his bio. :?

I think having the martians ahead of us...and our 'advances' less on par lends a far more sinister air to the threat they represent.

I'm also skeptical about it becoming canon.

Re: Info about the Martians...

Hmm...

Well, I've got a few ideas that I came up with--see how you like 'em...:D

1) Damn, them Martians sure are manoeuvrable!

The Martians get Gyroscopic Stabiliser on all vessels without any SPACE cost, but do have to increase their DV.

2) How the hell did they hit us from that far away?

Martians can get specialist versions of the Keel Bombard. Two versions I've thought off are the Heat Keel Bombard and the Smoke Keel Bombard...:D

3) We're behind them--no, wait a minute, in front of them...

Martians have all-round Primaries--so each arc allows all primary weapons to fire in that arc.

4) Even their small craft shoot further than us!

Martian FACs are allowed to use a heat ray-type light gun.

I've got costing ideas already, but Im not sharing them with you--yet big_smile Also, if you like these ideas, Im thinking of having EITHER the gyro option OR the all-round primaries--saves them from being too uber-nasty

Re: Info about the Martians...

Actually, I'd say that all-around primaries largely negate the need for 'free' gryoscopes, and vice-versa.  So I'd pick one or the other, not both.  'Free' Gyrocopes and the different sorts of Keel Bombards sounds really cool and nasty to fight against though.     

I also think it would be better to have the Martians not use FAC's at all (at least to begin with), and have the concept be a human creation.  That could be the one area where the humans got a 'leg up' on the Invaders.

-Will

Re: Info about the Martians...

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

Well, I've got a few ideas that I came up with--see how you like 'em...:D

I like 'em all! But I do agree with wminsing in that Martians should not have FACs. Just never thought of them -- no Martian equivalent of Jackie Fisher. wink

That will be something they copy from us after the first encounters of the Second Invasion...

But they should have some things completely unknown to us-- after all, the only tech we've recovered has been from surface units (cylinders and walkers).

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Info about the Martians...

bobslaughter wrote:

Hmm, What if "Edison's Conquest of Mars" was a know-to-be sensationalized or exaggerated account. After all, there is "War and Peace" as compared to the Flashman novels, for example.

Well, it's worth looking in to -- I'll try to give the whole thing another read through this weekend. But there's really no way it's going to become canon in its entirety. The Martians should be a definite threat -- a "boogeyman" hanging over us as we squabble among ourselves.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Info about the Martians...

My 2-cents of ideas and thoughts on Martians...;)

Given as the Martians had to shoot the cylinders to earth, I don't believe they have a maneuverability advantage at all.  Coupled with their development of 360-arcs of fire, maneuver becomes either redundant or at least of a secondary concern.

Range...yes, they should outrange standard human weapons.  They should be using keel gun ranges for their primary heat beams.  I don't think I'd give them keel bombards at all with their other obvious advantages...why would they bother, particularly if they've eschewed projectile weapons.  Their obvious advantage in range would also tend to have them neglect light guns. 

The black smoke was sprayed out over the countryside...not shot forth. That was a red russian innovation and proved volatile to them.  Since martians don't use projectiles, there isn't a way for the smoke to penetrate the air-tight compartments of the ships...hence the thought of using secondary 'tendrils' as spines to pierce enemy armor at closer ranges (3" max. for discussion).

For a unique Martian weapon...parasite drones...in lieu of FACs.  (Think battle satellites in Starmada with a single heat ray.) 

Dan's covered the Martian FAC issue....none at first.  Agreed that they'd use a heat ray version though...maybe use the red ruskies version for this.

The Martians use the thermal shields in lieu of armor...

The thermal emitters make the martian ship choose between BTR and BAV and are equipment hits.

Re: Info about the Martians...

go0gleplex wrote:

Given as the Martians had to shoot the cylinders to earth, I don't believe they have a maneuverability advantage at all.  Coupled with their development of 360-arcs of fire, maneuver becomes either redundant or at least of a secondary concern.

Actually, there's no proof that the cylinders were "shot" all the way to Earth. The flashes of light on the surface of Mars could have been anything.

I've been operating on the assumption that the cylinders were in fact "drop pods" of a sort, and that the Martian ether fleet was in orbit during the invasion, retreating after its failure.

Range...yes, they should outrange standard human weapons.  They should be using keel gun ranges for their primary heat beams.  I don't think I'd give them keel bombards at all with their other obvious advantages...why would they bother, particularly if they've eschewed projectile weapons.  Their obvious advantage in range would also tend to have them neglect light guns.

Some food for thought here, but I don't want to make the Martian ships completely different than the standards established for the Earthers...

The black smoke was sprayed out over the countryside...not shot forth. That was a red russian innovation and proved volatile to them.

Indeed. I'm not sure the Martians would use black smoke in shells (at least not right away).

For a unique Martian weapon...parasite drones...in lieu of FACs.  (Think battle satellites in Starmada with a single heat ray.)

Hmm.

The Martians use the thermal shields in lieu of armor...

The thermal emitters make the martian ship choose between BTR and BAV and are equipment hits.

Err... Todd... no one here knows about the thermal emitters idea yet. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Info about the Martians...

Err... Todd... no one here knows about the thermal emitters idea yet. smile

d'OH!!!! ><

Re: Info about the Martians...

Twenty Slaps with a wet Noodle for Todd....

BAD BOY! BAD!

Re: Info about the Martians...

It's what happens when you're trying to squeeze things in between meetings and returning phone calls.  :?

Re: Info about the Martians...

Eh?

Whats this? Need info...:D

Re: Info about the Martians...

Alright, everybody.  Might as well go home, Todd ruined it for everybody!

Tell Todd thanks, kids......



"THHHHHHHHAAAANNNNNNKKKSSSS TOOOODDDDDDDDDDD......" lol

Re: Info about the Martians...

Would pie help? tongue

Re: Info about the Martians...

Did anybody ever read, roleplayed or boardgamed the Space 1889 series from GDW?
In this game there was an interesting martian culture along with descriptions of their (rather simple) airships.

Re: Info about the Martians...

Enpeze wrote:

Did anybody ever read, roleplayed or boardgamed the Space 1889 series from GDW?
In this game there was an interesting martian culture along with descriptions of their (rather simple) airships.

Wrong version of martians unfortunately.  IS deals with the "War of the Worlds" version. smile  MUCH nastier and better tech....and most unpleasant...

Re: Info about the Martians...

go0gleplex wrote:
Enpeze wrote:

Did anybody ever read, roleplayed or boardgamed the Space 1889 series from GDW?
In this game there was an interesting martian culture along with descriptions of their (rather simple) airships.

Wrong version of martians unfortunately.  IS deals with the "War of the Worlds" version. smile  MUCH nastier and better tech....and most unpleasant...

Hm. Understand. I liked the space1889 martians. They had a very interesting culture and a great pulp factor.

Re: Info about the Martians...

Yeah, the Martians in Space:1889 are way primitive, and almost human - the game is basically an way to hook 'scientific romance' roleplaying onto colonial wargaming. Nothing wrong with it, but we couldn't do anything related to Space: 1889 due to copyright issues.

Besides, I like ours LOADS better....even if we haven't done any RPG-related work in that 'universe'. I'd like to work one up - at least a minimal one - and I've started some slow steps in that direction over on the ARES Yahoo group.

There was some discussion about what's going into the next supplement at one point, but I haven't heard anything in a coupla months. Me having a HD crash and Dan being somehow involved in a wedding has altered any previous plans, apparently....

Re: Info about the Martians...

Yup...and since it's been so silent...I've been tossing my energy into getting Wardogs into shape instead of Selenites and Spaniards...

Think it's bad now with the wedding...wait til when the kids start arrivin... :twisted:

Re: Info about the Martians...

go0gleplex wrote:

Yup...and since it's been so silent...I've been tossing my energy into getting Wardogs into shape instead of Selenites and Spaniards...

Think it's bad now with the wedding...wait til when the kids start arrivin... :twisted:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

My kids never expressed a lot of interest in gaming, all my oldest ever wants to play are COMPUTER games....blehh...

Re: Info about the Martians...

thedugan wrote:

Yeah, the Martians in Space:1889 are way primitive, and almost human - the game is basically an way to hook 'scientific romance' roleplaying onto colonial wargaming. Nothing wrong with it, but we couldn't do anything related to Space: 1889 due to copyright issues.

No, we couldn't borrow Space 1889's Martians, but nothing saying we can't include some of the thematic issues -- we'd just have to find someplace else to be our "Africa in Space".

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Info about the Martians...

cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

Yeah, the Martians in Space:1889 are way primitive, and almost human - the game is basically an way to hook 'scientific romance' roleplaying onto colonial wargaming. Nothing wrong with it, but we couldn't do anything related to Space: 1889 due to copyright issues.

No, we couldn't borrow Space 1889's Martians, but nothing saying we can't include some of the thematic issues -- we'd just have to find someplace else to be our "Africa in Space".

If we're talking steaming jungles...Venus gets my vote. smile

Re: Info about the Martians...

go0gleplex wrote:
cricket wrote:

No, we couldn't borrow Space 1889's Martians, but nothing saying we can't include some of the thematic issues -- we'd just have to find someplace else to be our "Africa in Space".

If we're talking steaming jungles...Venus gets my vote. smile

NOt necessarily... the reference to Africa was about the colonial "divvying" of territory that happened there.

And I'm not sure about a jungle-covered Venus. Overdone, IMHO.

Besides, we've already thrown down the gauntlet on the Moon, with the Spanish Conquistadors. wink

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com