• Rory
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-01-27
  • Posts: 21

Topic: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

So I was thinking about the setting of Iron Stars, particularly about the technology and the implications thereof. Obviously, these are my own musings, they have no reference to canon, though I think they could be included.

First and foremost, Cavorite, the foundation of the Royal Aether Fleet. The material as described by Wells blocks the effect of gravity. There are a couple of interesting inventions I see springing off from this. The first I call the patented Cavor Bearing. Line the exterior casing of a bearing with Cavorite, the result should be a repelling force within the center of the bearing. A shaft placed in the center should be held up, resulting in minimal friction.

I would imagine that sometime after the introduction of Cavor Bearings into steam engines, speed records would be set, with the attendent catastrophes. I would also imagine the rich would be using Cavor Bearings, soon to be followed by Cavor Dampers (shock absorbers for the yanks) (though to be precise, they would be replacing the springs) in high value carriages.

Another use of cavor would be lining the interior of a steam cylinder. Not only will it result in decreased friction from the piston, but the affect of cavor on steam injected into the cylinder will be to compress it even more, resulting in higher pressure with less steam.

The results of this will be a much higher efficiency in steam engine technology. I imagine that sometime shortly after the introduction of Cavor, His Royal Majesty King Edward will have a carriage fitted with Cavor Bearings and a small independent steam engine, resulting in a pratical horseless carriage.

This is going to make it harder for gas/diesel engines to be developed. There simply won't be as much need.

----

The Aether Screw

While I was painting my IS ships, I was thinking about the functions of the sails and the propellors that are visible in the illustrations on Brigade Games website.

I don't imagine the Aether Screw really looks like a propellor. I imagine it's probably more like a tube. Passing energy down the length of the tube allows it to "grip" the Aether, causing propulsion.

In my fevered imagination, the sails then are the actual aether screws, they are the devices that propel the ship.

So what are the propellors on the back? I propose that Aether screws are not terribly effective when close to a planetary mass. If they were, there would be no need for cavorite to get the ships up into space. Those propellors are on the back are for maneuvering when in the atmosphere.

Again, this is my own fevered imagination in action, but I think there are still Aeronef within the IS setting, because they are specialized for maneuvering within the Earth's atmosphere. The IS ships are specialized for operations beyond the debilitating effects of gravity on the aether.

Yeah, I got a lot of things to think about while feeding babies.

.r.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

Rory wrote:

So what are the propellors on the back? I propose that Aether screws are not terribly effective when close to a planetary mass. If they were, there would be no need for cavorite to get the ships up into space. Those propellors are on the back are for maneuvering when in the atmosphere.

Although not in print yet, I do have some musings on the whole sail/screw thing.

Frankly, I don't see Cavorite as being even remotely useful once in space -- with the shutters described in FMITM, you can only affect the degree to which the gravity of the Earth and/or Moon affects your ship. In order to maneuver (and fight) you need much more control than that. So, Cavorite is merely used to get things into orbit. Once there, the ether is used to get around.

Basically, my assumption has been that the ether does not interact with matter under normal circumstances. It merely provides for the transmission of light. However, provide the right EM "charge" to something (say, a screw) and it can be used to "push" against the ether. This can only be done in the vacuum of space, however, as an atmosphere prevents this charge from being maintained.

(This also explains why a ship only retains half its speed as momentum-- the same charge that allows the screws to be effective also provides "drag"...)

What about the sails, you ask? Well, I haven't quite decided. They are provided with the same "charge" applied to the screws, but whether they merely add to a ship's speed (a la solar sails) or are used as rudders has yet to be determined.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Rory
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-01-27
  • Posts: 21

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

Okay, that's interesting. I actually imagined the ether screw as a long tube, running down the length of the ship. Energy is pulsed down the length of the tube, the speed of it's pulse determining the final speed of the ship.

On my ships, I painted the sails as though they were an actual light source. After all, the Aether is the mechanism though which light travels, it makes sense to me that inefficiencies in the system will result in "light-spill". I also decided (because it looks cool) that the frequency of the pulses determines the color of the light spill, and that is an attribute that changes by nation and sometimes by ship.

For instance, my Britsh have blue sails, thanks to the frequency of their equipment. The Russians I was planning on putting more in the red/orange end of the spectrum.

I've finished one ship, I'll post a picture when I can.

.r.[/quote]

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

Rory wrote:

For instance, my Britsh have blue sails, thanks to the frequency of their equipment. The Russians I was planning on putting more in the red/orange end of the spectrum.

Now THIS is really cool!

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

cricket wrote:
Rory wrote:

For instance, my Britsh have blue sails, thanks to the frequency of their equipment. The Russians I was planning on putting more in the red/orange end of the spectrum.

Now THIS is really cool!

Heh...

so, the Brits are the Federation, and the Russians are the Klingons....?
:-)

It's not a bad idea, visually, and certainly, the Aetherscopes could pick up the difference - making IFF less of a problem - or something else to hang up the enemy with.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,285

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

So if the Spanish are goldenrod....what's that make them?  Cardassian? *LOL* lol

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

Rory wrote:

First and foremost, Cavorite, the foundation of the Royal Aether Fleet. The material as described by Wells blocks the effect of gravity. There are a couple of interesting inventions I see springing off from this. The first I call the patented Cavor Bearing. Line the exterior casing of a bearing with Cavorite, the result should be a repelling force within the center of the bearing. A shaft placed in the center should be held up, resulting in minimal friction.

I would imagine that sometime after the introduction of Cavor Bearings into steam engines, speed records would be set, with the attendent catastrophes. I would also imagine the rich would be using Cavor Bearings, soon to be followed by Cavor Dampers (shock absorbers for the yanks) (though to be precise, they would be replacing the springs) in high value carriages.

I can see the Cavor Bearing actually working, but not the damper. The bearing would merely negate the effects of gravity, so that the friction on the bottom of the shaft is negated. A useful thing.

Cavorite doesn't negate inertia, so how can the damper 'damp'?

Rory wrote:

Another use of cavor would be lining the interior of a steam cylinder. Not only will it result in decreased friction from the piston, but the affect of cavor on steam injected into the cylinder will be to compress it even more, resulting in higher pressure with less steam.

Don't see how this would work. In a previous life, I was a Machinist's Mate aboard a nuclear sub.

Rory wrote:

The results of this will be a much higher efficiency in steam engine technology. I imagine that sometime shortly after the introduction of Cavor, His Royal Majesty King Edward will have a carriage fitted with Cavor Bearings and a small independent steam engine, resulting in a pratical horseless carriage.

This is going to make it harder for gas/diesel engines to be developed. There simply won't be as much need.

If you can follow them.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_cycle
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/carnot.html

...these are good sources for how these things work. What killed steam powered locomotives in the UsA was the fact that diesel-electirics
required less upkeep. Diesel-electrics could also be controlled in groups and didn't require watering stations every few dozen miles - they were also more efficient.

The steam automobile is possible, but unlikely to become a big seller - it simply requires too much of the operator, and has to be re-watered too often to be practical. I can't see how Cavorite would change this.

I do see more emphasis being put on 'Aeronefs', and heavier-than-air being relegated to secondary status at best - perhaps reserved for fast and lightly armed fighters - all other duties being assigned to 'Nefs.

A vehicle something like a large zeppelin, actually, but armored when used in a combat role. Literally "Dreadnoughts of the Air".

Rory wrote:

The Aether Screw
While I was painting my IS ships, I was thinking about the functions of the sails and the propellors that are visible in the illustrations on Brigade Games website.

I don't imagine the Aether Screw really looks like a propellor. I imagine it's probably more like a tube. Passing energy down the length of the tube allows it to "grip" the Aether, causing propulsion.

In my fevered imagination, the sails then are the actual aether screws, they are the devices that propel the ship.

So what are the propellors on the back? I propose that Aether screws are not terribly effective when close to a planetary mass. If they were, there would be no need for cavorite to get the ships up into space. Those propellors are on the back are for maneuvering when in the atmosphere.

Again, this is my own fevered imagination in action, but I think there are still Aeronef within the IS setting, because they are specialized for maneuvering within the Earth's atmosphere. The IS ships are specialized for operations beyond the debilitating effects of gravity on the aether.

I do like this, however.

My first renderings had aircraft-style props instead of wet-navy screws.

I rathered pictured waves of 'energy' pulsing across the sail in the direction of travel - kind of like the 'warp core' in star Trek...the faster the ship goes, the quicker the sails pulse.

Why the heck can't I put a capital 's' in this forum?

  • Rory
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-01-27
  • Posts: 21

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

thedugan wrote:

Cavorite doesn't negate inertia, so how can the damper 'damp'?

Wrong word. How about springs. Float your carriage over the frame on cavor pads. The frame (with wheels) provides motive force, the carraige is bound to it and floats.

thedugan wrote:
Rory wrote:

Another use of cavor would be lining the interior of a steam cylinder. Not only will it result in decreased friction from the piston, but the affect of cavor on steam injected into the cylinder will be to compress it even more, resulting in higher pressure with less steam.

Don't see how this would work. In a previous life, I was a Machinist's Mate aboard a nuclear sub.

Perhaps I was overenthusiatic in my applications.

The first disasterous experiment that cavor tries, the cavorite blows a hole off the top of his workshack. In my mind, any proper shack shouldn't be destroyed by simple loss of gravity. There's a much more powerful force there, more than a negation of gravity, negative gravity. A repellent force.

It's that aspect of Cavorite I would apply to the interior of the cylinder.

thedugan wrote:

If you can follow them.....

You may disagree with me, but I'm not stupid.

.r.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

Rory wrote:
thedugan wrote:

Cavorite doesn't negate inertia, so how can the damper 'damp'?

Wrong word. How about springs. Float your carriage over the frame on cavor pads. The frame (with wheels) provides motive force, the carraige is bound to it and floats.

You'd end up with the same thing that Cavor got in his lab, the carriage would be pushed upwards in the enormous updraft of air. Even the limited amount in the bearings would cause some air turbulence - especially in the larger sizes. With small, carefully managed sizes, you might get an air cushion effect like what I proposed for the 'Nef's in our 'universe'.

Thinking in those terms, that would work. But, it's not like a shock absorber, more like an air cushion on a hovercraft....


Rory wrote:
thedugan wrote:
Rory wrote:

Another use of cavor would be lining the interior of a steam cylinder. Not only will it result in decreased friction from the piston, but the affect of cavor on steam injected into the cylinder will be to compress it even more, resulting in higher pressure with less steam.

Don't see how this would work. In a previous life, I was a Machinist's Mate aboard a nuclear sub.

Perhaps I was overenthusiatic in my applications.

Machinist Mate in the nuclear program = over educated steamfitter
:-)


Rory wrote:

The first disasterous experiment that cavor tries, the cavorite blows a hole off the top of his workshack. In my mind, any proper shack shouldn't be destroyed by simple loss of gravity. There's a much more powerful force there, more than a negation of gravity, negative gravity. A repellent force.

It's that aspect of Cavorite I would apply to the interior of the cylinder.

Atmospheric pressure blows apart work shacks all the time. They're called tornadoes. It's not a lack of gravity, but the weight of all that air trying to displace the miles-tall cloumn of air that's suddenly become weightless.


Rory wrote:
thedugan wrote:

If you can follow them.....

You may disagree with me, but I'm not stupid.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. I didn't read the whole article, and I've no idea of the educational backgrounds of the other readers that might be reading this.

Lack of knowledge doesn't mean stupid - it means you don't know - I don't know LOTS of things....or things that I know just don't line up in a way that makes sense immediately to me.

And I do appreciate your input, some of your thinking is along the same lines as stuff that I was thinking myself - sometimes it simply takes another point of view to express things properly.

  • Registered: 2008-06-08
  • Posts: 25

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

Cavorite would revolutionize power production.  Take the hovercraft plenum idea in a slightly different direction.  Wind created by the cavorite could be used to power a "wind mill".  Or a turbine.  Get the right compression and a wind turbine is a cinch.  Even a bubble head should be able to see that  tongue  Especially a nuclear bubble head.  This would be the quintessence of free green energy.

Such a turbine could also be used for propulsion in air or in water or underwater.  You could create a Cavorite water jet for propelling ships at sea or even for submarines. 

The ships themselves would probably have to be charged as well as the propellors.  Why?  Glad you asked.  Guns is my first thought.  Guns fired in zero g would have catastrophic consequences for maneuvering.  Unless the Powers are using recoiless rifles there has to be a way to use the Aether to "stabilize" a ship in space.  Therefore the ship would be electromagnetically charged to maintain way while using the guns.  There would probably also be uses for maneuvering such as for rudders etc.

The 'Nef idea has the airship beat hands down.

I was a Tin Can sailor for 4 years.   wink

  • Registered: 2008-06-08
  • Posts: 25

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

Oh and I won't mention using Cavorite for a Beanstalk  big_smile

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

CPTCole wrote:

Cavorite would revolutionize power production.  Take the hovercraft plenum idea in a slightly different direction.  Wind created by the cavorite could be used to power a "wind mill".  Or a turbine.  Get the right compression and a wind turbine is a cinch.  Even a bubble head should be able to see that  tongue  Especially a nuclear bubble head.  This would be the quintessence of free green energy.

Green Energy? <imagine me making gurgling strangling noises here>
:shock:

CPTCole wrote:

Such a turbine could also be used for propulsion in air or in water or underwater.  You could create a Cavorite water jet for propelling ships at sea or even for submarines.

 

Mmmm... yeah.....I suppose.

CPTCole wrote:

The ships themselves would probably have to be charged as well as the propellors.  Why?  Glad you asked.  Guns is my first thought.  Guns fired in zero g would have catastrophic consequences for maneuvering.  Unless the Powers are using recoiless rifles there has to be a way to use the Aether to "stabilize" a ship in space.  Therefore the ship would be electromagnetically charged to maintain way while using the guns.  There would probably also be uses for maneuvering such as for rudders etc.

I actually hadn't thought too far along those lines.

CPTCole wrote:

The 'Nef idea has the airship beat hands down.

Dan and I have sort of agreed that the 'Nef Idea' - while attractive from a gaming perspective - would  create too much wind turbulence to make the idea workable in large scales - I think it's on the forum somewhere...

CPTCole wrote:

I was a Tin Can sailor for 4 years.   wink

No, you were a Target for 4 years....
big_smile

I'll ponder the idea, but Dan has to have his say..... He be da boss, mon...

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Some thoughts about Cavorite, Aether Screws et al.

CPTCole wrote:

Oh and I won't mention using Cavorite for a Beanstalk  big_smile

Yeah, but would you need it?