• Registered: 2006-09-30
  • Posts: 2

Topic: Weapon Abilities & Effectiveness (Moderate Data included

A friend of mine is designing his own naval combat game setting using Starmada rules, and I'm doing a lot of the ship design concepts and a fair bit of number-crunching as well.  I'm coming up with some results that I want to verify and get other people's opinion on.  I believe my math is close to correct, but I'm no math wiz.

Basically my results are coming up as: "The more special abilities you add, the less overall effective the weapon is vs. a Standard Battery (ie. Range 18, 4+ 1/1/1)".  Are we getting diminishing returns on the higher investment on really special weapons?

We had three weapons that were the mainstay batteries of one of the fleets.  I threw them up against the "Standard Battery" as mentioned above, with satistical averages determining outcomes.  My main goal was to determine cost, overall hull damage, and regular damage ratios.

Gun 1: Rng 15 4+ 1/1/1 Extra Hull Dmg / Inc. Pen
Gun 2: Rng 15 4+ 1/1/1 Extra Hull Dmg / Continuing Dmg
Gun 3: Rng 15 4+ 1/1/1 Extra Hull Dmg / Inc. Dmg

Testing Parameters :
Range: 8 (medium range for most weapons)
Target's Shield: 3 (An Average Shield strength)
100 Rounds of Firing

                                 Cost(SUs)     Dmg       Hull Dmg
Gun 1 vs. Std. Bat.:      4.25:1          2:1            6:1
Gun 2 vs. Std. Bat.:      3.25:1        2.28:1        6.84:1
Gun 3 vs. Std. Bat.:      5.75:1          4:1           12:1

Obviously all the weapons did a lot more damage than the standard battery, especially hull damage.  This should be the case, because of the Extra Hull Damage in each weapon class.  Every successful hull damage by the 'special' guns causes a point of damage to the hull, and then there's an additional 50% chance for another point of hull damage.  Now normally this means that ships would be dying much quicker with these weapons due to hull loss, but I forsee a wide use of Organic and Armor-Plated hulls in the system we're designing.  I'm considering the value of hull damage to be about equal to that of overall damage because of that.  From the results, I'm not impressed by the 'special' guns.

So to kind of sum up what I'm asking, have your experiences been that the more 'specials' you add, the less effective the weapons are as a whole?

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Weapon Abilities & Effectiveness (Moderate Data included

rabidfox wrote:

A friend of mine is designing his own naval combat game setting using Starmada rules

So, you want help designing something to compete with Starmada... ?

smile

                                 Cost(SUs)     Dmg       Hull Dmg
Gun 1 vs. Std. Bat.:      4.25:1          2:1            6:1
Gun 2 vs. Std. Bat.:      3.25:1        2.28:1        6.84:1
Gun 3 vs. Std. Bat.:      5.75:1          4:1           12:1

Now normally this means that ships would be dying much quicker with these weapons due to hull loss, but I forsee a wide use of Organic and Armor-Plated hulls in the system we're designing.  I'm considering the value of hull damage to be about equal to that of overall damage because of that.  From the results, I'm not impressed by the 'special' guns.

I think I understand what you're saying, and I think you might be off in one area...

You cannot disregard the increased effectiveness of the special guns just because the targets might have organic hull, armor plating, or other special defenses -- those defenses will reduce the effectiveness of your 'standard' batteries as well. (Also, I note that your standard battery is range 18, but your special guns are range 15.)

The special abilities for weapons are all determined by their "expected damage" compared to a normal weapon. For example, hull damage occurs 1/2 the time, meaning that it takes two penetrating hits to damage one hull point. Thus, Extra Hull Damage is the equivalent of two extra weapons firing, resulting in a modifier of x3 (technically, that slightly over-values the ability; since a weapon with Extra Hull Damage can only inflict a maximum of 2 hits, it's not quite as effective as a weapon with DMG 3, which would cost the same).

Note that all these factors are independent of the target -- if the target's shields increase from 4 to 5, that will reduce the damage potential of all weapons by 1/2, regardless of range, to-hit value, or specials. So, if your chart says Gun 3 does 12 times the hull damage of a standard battery, that will remain true whether the target has Organic Hull or not.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2006-09-30
  • Posts: 2

Re: Weapon Abilities & Effectiveness (Moderate Data included

cricket wrote:
rabidfox wrote:

A friend of mine is designing his own naval combat game setting using Starmada rules

So, you want help designing something to compete with Starmada... ?

smile

No no...using the Starmada ruleset, just his own background story. smile


I think I understand what you're saying, and I think you might be off in one area...

You cannot disregard the increased effectiveness of the special guns just because the targets might have organic hull, armor plating, or other special defenses -- those defenses will reduce the effectiveness of your 'standard' batteries as well. (Also, I note that your standard battery is range 18, but your special guns are range 15.)

Good point.  I hadn't thought of that.

The special abilities for weapons are all determined by their "expected damage" compared to a normal weapon. For example, hull damage occurs 1/2 the time, meaning that it takes two penetrating hits to damage one hull point. Thus, Extra Hull Damage is the equivalent of two extra weapons firing, resulting in a modifier of x3 (technically, that slightly over-values the ability; since a weapon with Extra Hull Damage can only inflict a maximum of 2 hits, it's not quite as effective as a weapon with DMG 3, which would cost the same).

That kinda answers my question a bit.

Note that all these factors are independent of the target -- if the target's shields increase from 4 to 5, that will reduce the damage potential of all weapons by 1/2, regardless of range, to-hit value, or specials.

That only partially true.  Specials like Ignores Shields, Halves Shields, and Shield Resonant would be different, but I see what you're saying.  I guess my question is a lot more complicated than just a simple yes/no.  It's going to be heavily dependent upon what the target is and has.

So, if your chart says Gun 3 does 12 times the hull damage of a standard battery, that will remain true whether the target has Organic Hull or not.

Well the reason I brought up the OH issue, was that if a ship isn't killed outright, there is the potential for hull damage to be repaired.  I see that as a loss of effectiveness vs. cost.  Sorta like buying 'ignores shields', when you know most people will be running ships with ionic shielding.

Thanks for replying though.  Given me a bit more to think about.