• Registered: 2005-05-11
  • Posts: 20

Topic: Plane data

I downloaded the rules the other day - at the current sterling -> $ exchange rate, I think it cost me the equivalent of about three ship's peanuts ! First read through looks pretty impressive and I'm looking forward to giving them a game.

Problem is, I have a pretty large collection (100+) of Tumbling Dice's excellent 1/600th models and they're all 1939-1940 era aircraft so at the moment I can use about 1/4 of them at most  :? Although I can game Spitfires (albeit the wrong mark) and Hurricanes versus Me-109s and 110s using the rules, I can't use most of my French planes (some admittedly obscure but some fairly common ones as well such as the Bloch MB-152), Gloster Gladiators (vital for the Belgians and the BEF in France) or any of my Polish or Dutch aircraft at all.

I know you're a busy man, Dan, so I wouldn't expect a fully-fledged spreadsheet like the Starmada one, but just some clues about how the values are generated would help. I'm happy to generate my own data cards in CorelDraw as long as I have the right numbers to drop in. I've reverse-engineered the existing stats and could probably take a reasonable stab at generating new planes but any guidance would be helpful.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Plane data

I'm not sure how I want to proceed with Spitting Fire, so I'm reluctant to give away all the state secrets (except to say that the math ain't that hard if you want to give reverse engineering a go... smile).

However, by way of tiding you over, here are three more marks of the Spitfire...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-04-08
  • Posts: 62

Re: Plane data

I'd really like to see the open-source nature of MJ12 games like Starmada continue with Spitting Fire, but I understand the quandary.  Maybe part of the problem is with the demo?  For Starmada, the demo provides enough to sample the gameplay, but not enough to design ships, which is what everybody wants.  Therefore, people can try the game to see if they want to buy it, but really HAVE to buy it to do anything useful with it.  For Spitting Fire, on the other hand, if someone has the demo and can create plane stats, they're good to go (without paying for anything).  There's not an important piece of rule structure missing from the demo.

That said, I'd rather see supplements for Spitting fire primarily be books with additional RULES (for air-to-ground, jets, bombers and interception, night fighters), than books primarily containing new planes.  My preference would be for the rules to be applicable to any plane I've a fancy to create stats for (with the same calculations Dan would use), without having to wait for Dan to get an interest in, for instance, the BV 138 or FW 189 or Lysander or other oddities and publish the "official" plane.  I really like the "open source" feel of Starmada, and other MJ12 games ... the game provides the framework in the form of rules, but what specific armies or miniatures or whatnot to use is up to the players.  I'd like to see that continue with SF.

Doug

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Plane data

elsyr wrote:

without having to wait for Dan to get an interest in, for instance, the BV 138 or FW 189 or Lysander or other oddities

You mean like these?

smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: Plane data

cricket wrote:
elsyr wrote:

without having to wait for Dan to get an interest in, for instance, the BV 138 or FW 189 or Lysander or other oddities

You mean like these?

Just out of curiosity, what's the circle on the BV-138 data card?

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Plane data

underling wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what's the circle on the BV-138 data card?

"A few Bv 138C-1s were equipped with a large electric degaussing ring and used for minesweeping."

Although it doesn't appear on most versions of the 'Seedrache', I still think it's neat.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-31
  • Posts: 51

Re: Plane data

I'd also like to see Spitting Fire maintain the "open feel" of MJ12's other games.

It would be very nice to be able to "convert" other planes for the game that MJ12 hasn't gotten around to yet, as well as perhaps expand the rules a bit here and there to get a "retro sci-fi" air-combat game out of it.

I'm thinking along the lines of Air Captain or Crimson Skies.

--Tim

  • Registered: 2005-04-08
  • Posts: 62

Re: Plane data

cricket wrote:
elsyr wrote:

without having to wait for Dan to get an interest in, for instance, the BV 138 or FW 189 or Lysander or other oddities

You mean like these?

smile

Yup - exactly like those.  Thanks!   big_smile

So this means I can compile a list of all the hundreds of planes I want to see and just post them here, and you'll stat them right up lickety-split?  Cool!  I'm sure you have nothing better to do with your time.  :wink:

By coincidence, I have a model of the BV138 on the way from I-94.  Pretty useless, but I just had to tack it in to the order - the Flying Clog is one of my favorites.  I'm also fond of the Do-24, the BV-222, and the PBY-5a - I must have a thing for seaplanes.  The FW-189 is also pretty useless, but it just looks so cool.  Not as cool (or as wierd) as the BV141, but still cool.

Doug

  • Registered: 2005-04-08
  • Posts: 62

Re: Plane data

FlakMagnet wrote:

as well as perhaps expand the rules a bit here and there to get a "retro sci-fi" air-combat game out of it.

I'm thinking along the lines of Air Captain or Crimson Skies.

--Tim

Or do WWI.  I know MJ12 already has a WWI game, but I like the idea of using the same basic system (perhaps with the scale shifted to accomodate the lower speeds and greater maneuverability) for both.

Doug

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Plane data

Go here, go nuts....

http://www.luft46.com/


big_smile

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 8

Re: Plane data

thedugan wrote:

Go here, go nuts....

http://www.luft46.com/


big_smile

cool!

can you point me to a site containing technical cards of all WWI & WWII aircrafts?

a book would be neat, too...  tongue

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Plane data

Drugo wrote:
thedugan wrote:

Go here, go nuts....

http://www.luft46.com/
big_smile

cool!
can you point me to a site containing technical cards of all WWI & WWII aircrafts?

I'm afraid you'll have to utilize Google for that.

I do a LOT of google-fu from work, and I've yet to find a website that has all the aircraft from EITHER war, let alone both...

Drugo wrote:

a book would be neat, too...  tongue

Uhm....Amazon.com?
:-)

If Dan decides to release the 'secret formula', you could probably convert anything you could find enough data on....

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Plane data

Aces has a list of raw data for 90+ aircraft for tons of WWI fun!

(That was compiled from aerodrome.com but is in a nifty and easy to use list format which you could use for comparison)

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Plane data

elsyr wrote:

Or do WWI.  I know MJ12 already has a WWI game, but I like the idea of using the same basic system (perhaps with the scale shifted to accomodate the lower speeds and greater maneuverability) for both.

There's a reason why we have two separate systems (aside from the fact that Jim designed the one and I did the other smile). It's that I see the two periods as very different from one another... in WW1, air combat was still very much a dueling atmosphere, which Aces at Dawn simulates. By WW2, "fleet" actions were more the norm, thus Spitting Fire is suited for much larger combat.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Plane data

elsyr wrote:

I'm also fond of the Do-24, the BV-222, and the PBY-5a - I must have a thing for seaplanes.  The FW-189 is also pretty useless, but it just looks so cool.  Not as cool (or as wierd) as the BV141, but still cool.

Yeah, like I'm gonna hop to it and release cards for these planes within the hour.

Nice try...

It's gonna take at least until Monday. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-04-08
  • Posts: 62

Re: Plane data

Any more thoughts on releasing the plane calculator?

Doug

  • Registered: 2005-04-08
  • Posts: 62

Re: Plane data

Ok - how about now?   :wink:

Doug

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Plane data

Yes... some more thoughts.

big_smile

Seriously, look for a new release for Spitting Fire within the next month or so. It should answer your concerns.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-04-04
  • Posts: 24

Re: Plane data

Ok, how about now?  big_smile I just discovered these rules at TMP. I downloaded the PDF and am pretty geeked. I have loads of 1/700 scale aircraft and want to play. Gonna pick up the rules in the next few days.

Been looking for a larger scale aircraft game for several years now. Thought DB Air might come of something but never did.

Do you have a bundle price for buying the print copy and file together?

Thanks,

John

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,575

Re: Plane data

JohnL5555 wrote:

Do you have a bundle price for buying the print copy and file together?

No -- but if you buy the print copy, I may be willing to work something out. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website