That is what I do.  My heavier ships fire out to 30 hx, and have a 2+ to hit.  They all have 10 screens which makes them hard to damage at long range.   However, when hostile ships get close, its very challanging to keep screens between them and my ships.  :shock:

Without using fighters, seekers, or strikers can you build a smaller, faster ship that can survive long enough so that it can get into close range?  I'm thinking something like a LAC in the Honor Harrington books (or would you classify them as fighters).

I've only seen one game so far and there was pretty much no moving the whole game.  A lot of sit back and shoot and hope my dice roll better than yours.

and you don't find that a problem?, it's all about who has bigger guns on his gun platform, moving ships is not important, nor are there any need for weapons outside the forword arcs, thats not a balanced way to play the game, there has to be a way to improve the play, right now firepower is cheap vs. cost of defence and movement.

Anyone has any ideas?

Another thing I would try if faced with a fleet that loads up on extreme-ranged, powerful weapons is to field as many cheap ships as possible.

By definition, the other fleet is relying on a smaller number of more expensive ships. Due to the nature of chance in the game, by outnumbering the opponent I make him make a choice:

1) Split fire among as many targets as possible (never a good idea), or

2) Concentrating on a few targets in order to assure some combat reduction, but leaving the rest of my fleet undamaged.

Holy CRAP. How big was the battle?

It takes a lot to destroy a hull-24 ship in one turn...

not as much as you think, 1 weapon with a rate of fire 2, range 30, repeating, increase hits, piercing and multi impact and damage (IIRC), it was a very nusty gun .

Anyways, why I think weapons are cheep?, because their value is fixed, while engines, shields, and a lot of other systems are a percentage of the total space on the hull, with large hulls that = a lot of weapons. If you do not install shielding and keep the engines small you can have a lot of firepower, and I will die before I can take advantage of this

If you opponent have high ranged guns and low movement ships, you could load up on ships that have cloak, high speed and short-ranged guns.  I built this ship off the top of my head to get an idea of what I'm talking about (battle results may vary).

(80) Spinters-class

Hull: 2 1                     
Engines: 15 8                     
Shields: 0 0                     
Weapons:
1:X 2:X 3:X 4: 5: 6:

X: Blaster: 1/2/3, 2/2+/4/5
[AB]
Ammo: 2

Special: Cloaking Device

-Bren

So I was curious what it would cost to buy the "sick gun" as described, and the minimum stuff necessary to get it on the board.  I had to interpolate a little, but here are my figures (please check me):

Sick Gun (Range 30, ROF 2, IMP 3, DMG 3, multi-hit, piercing repeating)

30 * 2 * 3.25 * 3.6 / 3 * 2.3 * 1.5 * 3 = 2422

Hull 22 = 5560

Engine = 575
Weapon + 1 arc (G of course) = 4844

SU Used = 5419

Battery ORAT = (4844 * 31 / 30) * 1.5 = 7508
DRAT = 44

CR = (7508 * 44)**.5 = 575

So that's 575 points to get a hulk with one engine that'll drag this huge gun onto the board.

-------

Hmm, okay, for less points than that, I'll take 8 of these, which just acquitted themselves very well in my battle tonight:

Shiva Class Fast Patrol Ship (CR64)
(Stealth, Countermeasures, Armor)

Hull:    02 01
Engines: 09 05
Shield:  00 00

X: Particle Lance (Piercing)
Range:12 ROF:1 Acc:5 Imp:1 Dmg:2
[CA] [BD] [G] [G]

1:XX 2:XX 3:XX 4:XX 5:XX 6:XX

-----

Game on... Starting at Range 30.  Turn one, the Sick Gun can't even shoot at me because because I shift his long range to out of range with my stealth.  I aim to end the turn 22 hexes away (just in case he moves forward one).  Next turn, I punch it up to 18 and end the turn 4 hexes away (my close range).  The sick gun turns one of my ships into plasma, while I unload ~24 shots into him (assuming I can't centerline him).  On average, 12 hit, for 24 points of damage.  That's half the hull gone, and more importantly, likely 8 weapon hits, so I good chance to hit that magic number on the weapon damage table and kill the sick gun.  So much for the supremacy of range.  And my ships are even paying for stuff that don't help them in this situation like the armor and countermeasure.

That's my take on it

Range 3 weapon?   Muhahahaha...   Range 12 weapon?   muhahahahaha...

Try this little bugger...

------------------------------------------------------------
Class: Bugger
CRAT: 25
Hull: 1
Engine: 6
Shields: 0
Weapons: 1:X, 2:X, 3:X, 4:X, 5:X, 6:X

Weapon X: Rng=30, ROF=2, ACC=2+, IMP=1, DMG=1
[AB]

Hyperdrive, Cargo (2)  (<- closet  )
(only TL change was Weapons at max tech)

BTW, with 0 TL changes: CRAT: 36, Hull: 2, Weapons: 1:X, 2:X, 3:X, 4:-, 5:-, 6:-, Cargo (24).
------------------------------------------------------------
then I thought about Screens (I usually never build ships with screens)..

Class: Bugger II
CRAT: 23
Hull: 1
Engine: 4
Screens: 5
Weapons: 1:X, 2:X, 3:X, 4:X, 5:X, 6:X

Weapon X: Rng=30, ROF=2, ACC=2+, IMP=1, DMG=1
[G]

Hyperdrive, Cargo (1)  (<- glove compartment)
(only TL change was Weapons at max tech)
------------------------------------------------------------

Maneuvering?   Pshaw, I get to roll LOTS of dice (badly, as usual).   :roll:

Now I just need about a gazillion miniatures to represent my "Fleet".  :twisted:
(hmm, I have a spare styrofoam sheet to cut up and a bag of rice, add paint ........)

hexblade,

Before you start banning stuff, think in terms of evolution.

Only allow the loser of a battle the option of redesigning their fleet for the next battle.  The winner is forced to keep their current ship designs.

The real reason that you lost was that your opponent was able to out-design you.  He guessed that you were going to make a really big ship and he designed his ship to take it out.  Had you fielded numerous small ships or carriers, it would have been a much different outcome.

If you allow evolution to occur, you'll see a myriad of designs evolve that will be balanced against each other.

Mike Z

Nothing wrong with this approach. Starmada is made for tinkerin'.   The reason there are so many options is not to use every last one of them in every game, but to provide enough variety to tailor the game to your particular needs/tastes.

But at some point I would encourage your group to experiment with counters to the long-range weapon approach. I think you'll find that there are many possibilities... and we'd love to hear about the results!