Glad you like what you see...

I expect to get an updated Shipbuilder done over the weekend.

Oops.

That was a name I gave to the Grumm "special ability" before I decided it should remain a setting- (and race-) specific option. See p.15.

Besides, there are better ideas out there for what a CIC should do...

Yeah, but unless you send me your designs and a general idea of what the ship is supposed to be/look like, I can't do any snazzy artwork....

I'd love to do up some space ships minis, but I lack basic artistic talent required to design the damn things.

also, that and my wife won't let me spend that kind of money just so I can have some neat spaceships.

Oops.  :oops:

Not to be relieving myself in anyone's cereal, but this is exactly what I was concerned about regarding the 'serialization' of Starmada's rules.

Starmada's strength and appeal for many (everyone in my playgroup anyway), up to now has been that it's flexible enough to cover any setting.  Now we have ship design options and rules that were omitted from the Starmada:AE edition that are being included in supplements (ISS) and other rules being created for certain settings that are apparently intended to STAY in that setting.

I bought ISS because I felt like I was missing something by not having it, and I was right.  The rules for combining range-based weapon traits were very important for a weapon concept that I had but couldn't do with the S:AE book alone.  Now purchasers of H&C need to buy ISS for the carronade rules... 

Starmada, IMO should stand on it's own, period.  Setting books should not contain any new rules at all, again, IMO.  The settings are great, don't get me wrong.  I really enjoyed reading the background to ISS, and having ship designs available for demo games is convenient too so new players don't have to dive into ship designing until they're ready.  So the supplements would still have their value.

Starmada is good enough (great enough) that I'd happily pay a higher price for it if I could be guaranteed access to any/every rule/option that comes out, like a subscription to all the rules no matter what book they're in.  Not the setting stuff, not the ship designs, just the rules.  I figure an updated "ship design handbook" that included all the rules for all options in PDF format or something.  Just print out the newest version of the handbook, discard the old pages for it and your rules are up to date.

I'm not bagging on Starmada or any of it's supplements... I don't hate it, I think it's great!  It's my appreciation for the game that prompts me to speak up with what I realize is possibly an unpopular view, at least amongst MJ12's staff anyway.  If I didn't like it so much, I wouldn't care and I'd just spend my energy (and $$) elsewhere.

Normally I would agree with having all the rules in the core book..... but at the same time, I do like the option of adding a new rule with the addition of a new race.... it gives something unique to that race.

Maybe Dan could publish an SRD version, or release the specific rule after a set amount of time......

However we do it, the fact that the universe is not only growing, but is growing in a way that isn't "here are some rules, but you'll have to provide your own setting, or use another game for inspiration" is really good.

John

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That's what I DON"T like...  If I'm building a race that wants that something included in it's tech/abilities, I should be able to use it in my universe.  That's what I believe Starmada's foundations rest on.  IMO, to go away from that is to give up a big part of Starmada's appeal.

I think it's cool too... the more unique, useful options that fit properly into the Starmada rules the better.  The settings are great too.  What'shappening NOW though, is "Here is a great game... to get the absolute MOST out of it though, you need THESE books to play..."  Right now it's only three books... but the way things are going, that number is just gonna grow.

I figured it was an oversight, I'm not condeming anyone or anything.  It is a good idea to include carronade in H&C and I concede that it's a decent compromise between my stance that the main rulebook should include ALL rules and the settings books shouldn't ever include new rules.

I like the settings books too, the "fluff" is cool and the expansion of pre-designed ships along a common theme is handy to have.  I just don't want to HAVE to own all of them to have all the rules... I just think that rulebooks shouldn't be like Pokemon  "gotta catch 'em all!".

(Edited repeatedly until I got the quote tags right  :?  )

Well, here's the bind in which I find myself:

A) If I don't put out expansions, the average gamer will think "It's a neat system, but there's no support". (See ARES... great game, people love it if they try it, but without regular releases to keep it in the public eye, people don't try it. And yes, Kevin, I know -- there's no shortage of potential material... )

B) If I do put out expansions, I run into exactly the problem described by FlakMagnet -- "gotta catch 'em all" -- the frustration with which is perfectly understandable.

So, I have several goals for supplements/expansions:

1) Each is self-contained, when combined with the Core Rulebook. i.e., you don't need the Imperial Sourcebook to use Hammer & Claw. (Which is why I intended to include Carronade but forgot.)

The problem will be that, eventually, the amount of "recycled" rules content will vastly exceed the "new" and "setting-only" stuff -- but see below.

2) No CCG-type expansion of the game that instantly invalidates everything that came before -- although the emphasis on Combat Rating and game balance should take care of this on its own.

For example, let's assume that the "Screens" option was not part of the Core Rulebook, but was included in H&C. We need to make sure that by introducing the concept of screens, we don't immediately make any ship with mere "Shields" obsolete.

3) The whole point of the Admiralty Edition is to reinforce the "create-a-game" aspect of Starmada. Thus, each supplement should highlight a particular subset of the available rules -- not the ENTIRETY of the rules.

I hope that adherence to these principles will reduce frustration and limit the perception that we're "fracturing" the game and scattering the essential material across multiple books.

For those who don't want to buy every supplement because they're only interested in the rules, not the background material (which, BTW, is REALLY cool -- good job, Matt!) it is my intention to periodically release rules-only compendiums that will compile all of non-background material from the previous X number of supplements.

I'm not opposed to this idea in theory -- but I'd need to think more on exactly how it would work.

Well, that IS the intent... it's just that I doubt it would ever be possible to say "This book is COMPREHENSIVE"... players are just too creative for that.

True dat.

Different strokes for different folks.

Me, I hope Dan gets a slew of different people involved in churning out setting books.  And I'll buy all of them -- even if I understand there's only one or two new rules in each publication.  I had a blast writing up a plotline/universe/whatever for Starmada.  And my regret with systems like this and Defiance is that we haven't seen people come up with MORE applications.

I'm not a gamer who routinely likes to see what new ship design he can come up with.  I like stories.  I need a concrete setting to play in.  And the occasional ship design contest or collection of player-made offerings posted on the forum don't hold much interest to me because there's no context in which to place them.  Sure, they have RoF 3 and can shoot up to 15 hexes away.  But why are they there in the first place?  So again, I like settings.  Just like I enjoy reading AARs and fan fiction and all that stuff.

To be fair, I think there are enough options in the core rulebook to cover a TON of different potential factions.  And Dan's always been someone who will provide some mechanics input or the point cost multiplier or whatever  if you have something you want to model in your game that isn't covered by what he's already done. 

If I see a setting book, I'm going to assume I'm getting a setting and some pre-made ships and counters to try it out.  And that's what I want.  I want to see what folks can do with Starmada, other than some isolated stats.  And I'll always be willing to part with $11 bucks to download that.

But like I said, I don't assume everyone here is gonna agree with me.