• Registered: 2007-06-18
  • Posts: 128

Topic: Dual Mode Questions:

Let us assume a dual mode weapon, with modes A and B.

In Mode A, the weapon requires ammunition, is slow firing, and has reduced penetration.  (and likely does damage in buckets)

In Mode B, none of the above are the case.

1.)  May the weapon fire in Mode B, if there is no ammunition remaining?  (We assume that Mode A was costed for ammo, and mode B was not)

2.)  If the weapon fires on turn 1 in Mode A, may it fire on turn 2 in Mode B?

3.)  If the answer to #1 or #2 above is 'no', then why does the weapon not suffer from reduced penetration in Mode B?

Next Question:
Assuming the answer to question #1 above is 'Yes', may a weapon be designed such that it has modes A and B, and requires (seperate) ammunition for both?  May a weapon be designed such that it has modes A and B and shares ammunition for a common pool for both?

Next Question:
It was noted that Dual-Mode weapons must have the same range. Does this still allow Dual Mode Weapons wherein Mode A suffers from "minmum Range" and Mode B has the carronade limitation?  (As this would, I assume, subvert the designers intent in limiting dual-mode weapons such that both modes must have the same range, while remaining true to the text of the rules)

Final Question:
Why do Dual-Mode weapons have to have the same range in both modes?  A hypothetical 12 gauge shotgun carrying both bird-shot and slug ammunition would have widely varying ranges (and, incidentally, 2 supplies of ammunition, relying on ammunition for each).

Such a 12-Gauge Shotgun, in a suitably up-teched descendant, would make a pretty neat, pretty 'realistic', and currently difficult-to-impossible to duplicate under the rules, weapon.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Dual Mode Questions:

Marcus Smythe wrote:

1.)  May the weapon fire in Mode B, if there is no ammunition remaining?  (We assume that Mode A was costed for ammo, and mode B was not)

Page 11 of Hammer & Claw states: "In addition, if using option C5: Ammunition, each time the weapon is fired one point of ammo is exhausted, regardless of which mode is used."

This was intended to imply that if a weapon has ammo for one mode, it must have ammo for both.

2.)  If the weapon fires on turn 1 in Mode A, may it fire on turn 2 in Mode B?

Good catch. I would say if the weapon is fired as "slow-firing", it cannot be fired in the subsequent turn, even if its other mode is not slow.

3.)  If the answer to #1 or #2 above is 'no', then why does the weapon not suffer from reduced penetration in Mode B?

I don't know. Why would it suffer from reduced penetration?

Next Question:
Assuming the answer to question #1 above is 'Yes', may a weapon be designed such that it has modes A and B, and requires (seperate) ammunition for both?  May a weapon be designed such that it has modes A and B and shares ammunition for a common pool for both?

As above, the intent is that the weapon draws from the same ammo stock regardless of mode.

Next Question:
It was noted that Dual-Mode weapons must have the same range. Does this still allow Dual Mode Weapons wherein Mode A suffers from "minmum Range" and Mode B has the carronade limitation?

Sure. The "must have the same range" limitation is merely for ease in point-costing.

Final Question:
Why do Dual-Mode weapons have to have the same range in both modes?

As above.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2007-06-18
  • Posts: 128

Re: Dual Mode Questions:

I suck at quotes, so...

1.)  "Slow Firing" is a penalty that applies to a weapon.  Reduced Penetration is a penalty that applies to a weapon.  If the slow firing penalty on mode 1 also penalizes mode 2, why does the reduced penetration penalty on mode 1 not also penalize mode 2?

I suppose another way to look at it is...
Dual Weapon= 10 Mode A OR 10 Mode B
Normal Ship, non-dual weapons: 10 Mode A AND 5 Mode B

Such that a Dual-Purpose Weapon ship may have either or, but does not have both simultaneously.

Thus the firing pattern for a the ship described above would be
Turn 1   
10A
Turn 2
10B
Turn 3
10A
Turn 4
10B

Versus a non-dual mode ship, having 10 'A' weapons and 5'B' weapons, which would get
Turn 1
10A, 5B
Turn 2
5B
Turn 3
10 A, 5B
Turn 4
5 B

Such that over 4 turns, the dual mode and non-dual mode ships would, at the same cost, generate the exact same volume of fire.  This is different from the non-slow-firing dual purpose/non-dual purpose dichotomy, wherein the dual mode ship would fire 10A OR 10B, versus the non-dual mode ships 10A AND 5B every turn.

Since we want the dual-mode ship to have that firepower penalty as a price for flexibility (as its price for having 10B when desired, rather than 10A and 5B all the time), then the slow-firing issue is resolved, and I retract the question.

I suppose that the same concerns answer the ammo question, though I still find the idea of a weapon that has a limited number of 'big shots' and unlimited 'little shots' really flavorful.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Dual Mode Questions:

Marcus Smythe wrote:

"Slow Firing" is a penalty that applies to a weapon.  Reduced Penetration is a penalty that applies to a weapon.  If the slow firing penalty on mode 1 also penalizes mode 2, why does the reduced penetration penalty on mode 1 not also penalize mode 2?

Because most penalties apply at the time of the attack, and therefore can be split between modes without crossover and still be balanced. However, "slow firing" applies across turns -- and is not a penalty at all in the turn when it is fired.

Therefore, in order to avoid abuse, we have to stipulate that slow-firing in one mode does apply to the other mode.

Since we want the dual-mode ship to have that firepower penalty as a price for flexibility (as its price for having 10B when desired, rather than 10A and 5B all the time), then the slow-firing issue is resolved, and I retract the question.

Does that mean I should retract the answer? smile

I suppose that the same concerns answer the ammo question, though I still find the idea of a weapon that has a limited number of 'big shots' and unlimited 'little shots' really flavorful.

I could see expanding the dual-mode concept to deal with this, as well as differing ranges... but for now, there must be some limitations.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website