[size=200] BREAK OUT THE PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES!!![/size]

on a more serious note: If you like things catered to the power gamer based on more of an MMORPG framework, you'll probably like it. It even has a RED SHIRT rule, referring to 1hp minions.

Personally, with 30 yrs of D&D behind me...I just switched over to Castles & Crusades rather than buy what I see as worthless junk.  And I got the only two books I need to play for less than one of the new books to boot!

And I think its:

"Break out your torches and pitchforks!"

Then why aren't you playing Runequest?

Honestly, I play what the people around me have to play. No one ever seems to want to play what I bring...

Tried Rolemaster - still have SERIOUS reservatjions about using percentile dice and a ton of charts - KLUDGE CITY....

Friend of mine up in the Great Lakes Naval Station brought out Runequest, and he was an excellent Game master, the system was okay but had issues that didn't make it a good candidate for anything other than a sword melee - modern weapons didn't translate well. Magic system was good.

A few years earlier, when we were playing AD&D, the game master was pretty good too.

I ran Rolemaster, at the insistence of one of the players, and frankly sucked at it. Didn't really play - maybe that's ANOTHER reason I dislike it.
<shrugs>

Back when TSR was raking everyone over the coals and making people pulling down anything online (or get sued) that involved a D20, I swore off ever buying anything involved with D&D.

A few years later, when they released their 'open' d20 system, I started downloading all the free stuff that I've been able to find.

I really can't afford too much game stuff nowadays - wife and kids - and the schedule doesn't allow me interaction like I used to have with gamers - so I participate in things like this...

Here's just one of the massively discussed threads for 4e

http://www.freeyabb.com/trolllordgames/viewtopic.php?t=5227&start=0&mforum=trolllordgames

I've just started a 4E game for our group and we're having lots of fun.  Here's my standard reply on the subject:

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This is the first time I've run D&D in at least twenty years, and I didn't play it much in that time either, so I have very few notions about how the game ought to be played, except that there needed to be killing and treasure.

Here are my pluses and minuses after six hours of play time:

+ The rules are available in PDF.  Searchable rules are a requirement for me nowadays, especially for complex rulesets.

+ The Vancian spell system, for the most part, has been taken behind the barn and shot.  And good goddamn riddance, I say.

+ Minion rules.  Minion-type monsters pose a threat to the characters (especially in large numbers) but have only one hit point each.  You don't have to track any stats for them at all; they're either dead or alive.  This is a very nice port in from Savage Worlds and means I can run the Zulu-like combat scenes I like.

+ All rules necessary to run a monster are in the monster's stat block. This was my single biggest problem with 3.5; monsters would have catalogs of feats, and if you didn't know them all and how they interacted, you wouldn't play them effectively.

+ Monsters appear to have some tactical personality.  Fighting bugbears will be way different than kobolds.  Enemies feel like more than 10-line BASIC programs now.

+ Everyone appears has something to contribute during a fight.

+ The DMG philosophy of Saying Yes to the players is very, very much in line with my preferred play style.

+ A LOT of work is necessary to make a new character class; this should cut down on crap  third-party splats.

+ Play is really team-oriented.  Everyone can buff everyone else.  Everyone complements everyone else.  Maneuvers need to be coordinated.

+ The Points of Light is a nifty setting idea and a nice port-in from Warhammer.  I am trying to think of how to make Greyhawk a Points of Light setting; maybe this is Greyhawk a millenium after the 1980s boxed set, with Iuz on the rise again.

o There appears to be a great deal more tactical depth than there was before.  Before, (I think) you could just move and bash.  Now (at least with kobolds) you have to have some thought.  Casual players may be turned off by this, so I mark it as neither positive or negative.

o You need minis.  I lurve minis.  You might not, though.

- No monk.  No barbarian.  No druid.  LAME.

- The stunting rules and skill challenge rules appear to be throw-ins.  H1 doesn't showcase either idea.  They could be awesome, but that awesome is buried somewhere in a house rule, I think.

- The interrupt rules are a bit baroque, but I play with smart people, and I'm sure it's nothing we can't handle.

- H1 is dry.  I wanted to juice it up a bunch before I was really interested in running it.

- With the game being so team-oriented, you really need a bunch of players.  Solo or duo adventures will have to be constructed way differently than team adventures. I'm guessing this is true of all the D&Ds tho.

- The DM has to spend $100 to run it. Goddamn Ha$bro moneygrubbers.

That's the lovely thing about asking a question like this.  Everyone has their opinions.

And I used to play D&D nightly for 3-5 hours.    A party of 4-6 avg 5th lvl PCs was dogmeat for 6-8 kobolds in their lair.  The PCs didn't even make it past the third room before the first character death.

The biggest thing that makes 4e not D&D...is that like a wargame, there is a rule for damn near everything.  Old timers like me prefer more of an open ended, use your brain not the rulebook, approach...which is one of the major points of contention.  The other is that it should've been named World of Dungeoncraft, not D&D.   

There's a very nice deconstruction of the D&D rules on pg42 of the DMG, with benchmark DCs and damage ratings by level that a DM can use to rule on situations that aren't spelled out in the rules.

IMO, this section makes 4E a reasonably open-ended game, since it helps the DM keep her judgment calls consistent with the rest of the system.

In a way, it reminds me of Starmada, in that you have this reasonably complex game that isn't an inscrutable black box, but instead provides a nice viewport into the designers' underlying thinking.

If you read the Players guide closely, you will see that they talk of expansions...  They will be back!

-Bren

I like RPGs but i rather play d20 Modern or DND 3.5 or one of the other systems i own.

Really can see pay all that money for the 4th Edition.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay nice game, played it long time ago.

I would agree with you, wish MJ12 would try thier hand at a fantasy rpg.

..and I'm wondering it that portends anything.

Look into Runequest, this sounds like a cross of RQ and FUDGE...