• Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Topic: Rulebook construction questions

New to this one so please forgive any "Stupid" Questions.

Equipment:
Where Items such as Limpet Mine may be chosen more than once, does the Offensive Rating Modifier apply more than once?

The Stealth Modification giving a sensor signature reduction of -2.
I cannot seem to find the calc for sensor signature, there is nowhere for it on the data card.

Anti-Gravity Modification:
MP for the Offensice Rating Mod. Is this Basic or final MP?

Thermal Dampers:
Are these calculations applied after all other adjustments?

General:
Unless specified as "Round Down" are all calculations rounded up?

Sorry may have a few more questions before I am finished. Trying something like the shipyard but starting from the ground up. Perhaps the hardest thing is looking at a blank spreadsheet and thinking "How?"

Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

OldnGrey wrote:

New to this one so please forgive any "Stupid" Questions.

Equipment:
Where Items such as Limpet Mine may be chosen more than once, does the Offensive Rating Modifier apply more than once?

Yes.

OldnGrey wrote:

The Stealth Modification giving a sensor signature reduction of -2.
I cannot seem to find the calc for sensor signature, there is nowhere for it on the data card.

The reference to Sensor signature is a hold over from way back when that I apparently forgot was even there.  :oops:  Then again...they are using thermal 'sensors' right? wink

OldnGrey wrote:

Anti-Gravity Modification:
MP for the Offensice Rating Mod. Is this Basic or final MP?

Final MP.  So the offensive modifier is +1 for every 2 MP of the unit...granting a +5 for a unit with MP 10.

OldnGrey wrote:

Thermal Dampers:
Are these calculations applied after all other adjustments?

Thermal Dampers adjust the final thermal signature after all other modifications.  (see the second paragraph under Unit Thermal Signature, pg 30)

OldnGrey wrote:

General:
Unless specified as "Round Down" are all calculations rounded up?

No.  Calculations should be rounded to the nearest whole unless otherwise specified.

OldnGrey wrote:

Sorry may have a few more questions before I am finished. Trying something like the shipyard but starting from the ground up. Perhaps the hardest thing is looking at a blank spreadsheet and thinking "How?"

Paul

Don't feel sorry mate.  I look at a blank spreadsheet and go "huh?!?"  lol   Talk to CATenwolde if you can Paul. He's done a unit design sheet also and you guys might be able to use each others work...or commiserate on problems. wink

  • Registered: 2006-02-23
  • Posts: 78

Re: Rulebook construction questions

I would love another set of eyes on this Unit Creator spreadsheet.  It's not rocket science, but there is a LOT of different formulas to balance.  I had the dang thing all set for the final playtest version, and then Todd went and "developed" the game!  wink

I'm sure that someone better versed in Spreadsheet-fu could make something more elegant, but if you would like to take a look at the unit creator just drop me a line.

Cheers,

Christopher
christopher@tenwolde.us

PS - so the Ako was Med Gear L1?  smile

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

catenwolde wrote:

I'm sure that someone better versed in Spreadsheet-fu could make something more elegant, but if you would like to take a look at the unit creator just drop me a line.

quote]
Thanks.

Another question:
Page 49 EMP Warhead, Extra Launch Tube/Barrel?

Should this be External?

Thermal signature (Bomb Rack) has a -1, does this actually reduce an aircrafts Thermal Signature?

Mecha size 1 seems to come out at 2m tall and weighing enough to be a solid block! Eh?

Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

OldnGrey wrote:

Another question:
Page 49 EMP Warhead, Extra Launch Tube/Barrel?

Should this be External?

No. It is correct as written.  It may not be used as an external weapon with the default setting.  This may be customized as players desire if all are in agreement however.

OldnGrey wrote:

Thermal signature (Bomb Rack) has a -1, does this actually reduce an aircrafts Thermal Signature?

No.  If you look at the table on Page 44, the base thermal cost is +1 for Ballistic weapons.  The -1 is essentially negating this thermal signature per the Equipment Description on page 49.

OldnGrey wrote:

Mecha size 1 seems to come out at 2m tall and weighing enough to be a solid block! Eh?

They don't call armor heavy metal for nothing. wink *chuckles*  It's not a perfect conversion...I admit...but it does add a lil flavor. smile

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

go0gleplex wrote:
OldnGrey wrote:

Another question:
Page 49 EMP Warhead, Extra Launch Tube/Barrel?

Should this be External?

No. It is correct as written.  It may not be used as an external weapon with the default setting.  This may be customized as players desire if all are in agreement however.

I know I may be losing my sight but I cannot see "Extra Launch Tube/Barrel" in the options. Multiple launch tubes?

Offensive Rating:
"(Weapon Range plus the unitMP)"
Is the Weapon Range used, the Range Rating or the Maximum actual range of the weapon?

Thanks,
Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

Yes...it should be Multiple Launch Tubes...

The extra launch tube/barrel is a hold over...dang it. another one for the errata.  It should read as above.


Weapon cost calcs use the Range rating...not the actual range.  So if you have a Range 5 weapon (5/10/15)....you use 5 as the value in the calculation.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

Thanks for the replies,just testing my spreadsheet.

Any objections to my posting it when I think it is finished?

I input the details for the HA-4M Dragon, and I notice that in the book it has a thermal signature of 5/7.
However the Tempest Med Msl is not hand held and the TS for these would appear to be included in the 5 already.
Maybe I have it wrong, the way I read it in the book is that the second figure would include hand held weapon TS until out of Ammo.

I cannot seem to get the Points value for this to more than 132.

Paul

  • Registered: 2006-02-23
  • Posts: 78

Re: Rulebook construction questions

I've entered all the official units into my unit creator, and the Thermal issue seems to be correct.  As written, the design balances on EM's and HP's, but the Thermal Signature should be 6(8): +4 Size +1 Fission +1 Tempest Missile +1 Tempest Missile +1 Minigun (chaingun) = base 8 -2 Thermal Dampers L2 (33%) = 6 final.

Once you double the Offensive Rating for the two External Tube Tempest Missiles, I get an overall point value of 142 (16 less than book).  My figures are Offensive 227 (+38 from the Tempests) and Defensive 88.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

If Dan's okay with posting it, I'm okay with it Paul.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

I know where I mucked up.

Would have been helpful if page 30 had an include "list" reminding to include the thermal modifier on table 12.

Back to the drawing board.

Paul

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

go0gleplex wrote:

If Dan's okay with posting it, I'm okay with it Paul.

Thanks, I'll ask.
Sent a copy to Christopher for him to look over.
The more people that see it, the more likely I'll get it right.

At the moment I have allowed four weapon enhancements plus multiple launch tubes and reload.
Is there a limit? I know that the "non combinations" limit these to some extent, just wondered.

Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

No limit, though from a practical standpoint...six weapons of mixed power is the most I've put on a unit so far I think.  Nothing saying someone won't try for a bunch of small stuff though... 

(just reread your post...gads I'm tired. No limit to enhancements of weapons, other than two for melee, though four seems a pretty fair default for spreadsheet purposes.)

Chris has got more of an eye for the spreadsheet stuff than I do.  It goes beyond basic math and it turns to greek...

or is that geek. :shock:  lol

  • Registered: 2006-02-23
  • Posts: 78

Re: Rulebook construction questions

Paul's spreadsheet is very elegant, and it is great to have someone else working on fitting the formulas into spreadsheet-talk.

Six weapons and four mod's seems okay.  The trouble is that there are basically two different genres of mecha in active play, traditional anime and BTech.  Anime mechs tend to have more limited weapon leads, while the BTech tradition emphasizes a large variety of weapons suited for different ranges and purposes.  Even so, most BTech mechs will be okay with 6 weapons, although very heavy designs like the Crusader, Warhammer, and Battlemaster go up to 8-10 weapons.  I might think about going up to 6 mod's, if it doesn't mess up the formatting too much.  I assume that this will be the default unit creator, so having 6 slots will let people play with more mod's, leave space for multiple Extra Ammo's, etc.

Cheers,

Christopher

PS - Greek or Geek ... I speak both.  wink

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

catenwolde wrote:

Paul's spreadsheet is very elegant, and it is great to have someone else working on fitting the formulas into spreadsheet-talk.

Thanks.

catenwolde wrote:

Six weapons and four mod's seems okay.  The trouble is that there are basically two different genres of mecha in active play, traditional anime and BTech.  Anime mechs tend to have more limited weapon leads, while the BTech tradition emphasizes a large variety of weapons suited for different ranges and purposes.  Even so, most BTech mechs will be okay with 6 weapons, although very heavy designs like the Crusader, Warhammer, and Battlemaster go up to 8-10 weapons.

How about lumping some weapons together, like the small lasers and machine guns, and multiple lasers into one with higher ROF?

catenwolde wrote:

I might think about going up to 6 mod's, if it doesn't mess up the formatting too much.

Done today.
I put Six weapons as that is the number on the data sheet. To fit more,a magnifying glass would be needed.

catenwolde wrote:

I assume that this will be the default unit creator,

One should not really assume anything, as Benny Hill would say 'To assume makes an ASS out of U and ME'

Seriously, I just wondered if I could make a workable spreadsheet from the ground up in a reasonable time from the book.

Probably a couple of tweaks needed yet and if Dan has no objection (awaiting a reply) I will post it on Yahoo groups.

Paul

  • Registered: 2006-02-23
  • Posts: 78

Re: Rulebook construction questions

"How about lumping some weapons together, like the small lasers and machine guns, and multiple lasers into one with higher ROF? "

Yes, that's a good way to streamline things, especially with systems like BTech where the actual choice of weapon types is small and you end up with 2x this and 4x that.  The only negative that I can see is that the design is a bit more fragile, in the sense that one shot can wipe out a RoF 3 gun, while if the same gun was split up into 3 separate weapons your losses would be incremental.  The HP costs of are variable - sometimes you save by wrapping things up in a high RoF weapon, and sometimes its cheaper to split them to get the same number of shots - but you probably would "pay" more for the multiple weapons in OR.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

True but a good hit in Wardogs it is the same as having a great chunk of the unit being blasted off. It would be quite probable that more than a single weapon would be lost.

The vehicles in the book, are they from a model range?

Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

Nope.  all DoGA stuff by the art guys.  Look like they could be models don't they. smile

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

Awwww

All those luverly designs and not even a 2D standup to play with - Criminal!

I'd settle for side views.

Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

OldnGrey wrote:

Awwww

All those luverly designs and not even a 2D standup to play with - Criminal!

I'd settle for side views.

Paul

Ohhhhh GUUUuuyyyys!   lol

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

What?

I am sure that in the dim distant past even Btech started out with 2D standup card mechs with a front/back view and little plastic stands to put them in.

OK the stands are asking too much(they cannot be downloaded) but if the "art guys" have the graphics, is it really too much to ask?

Front/back for mechs (unless more than 2 legs) and left/right views for everything else.

Perhaps they could do them to 1/300 in a pdf and put the set on RPGnow for a couple of dollars?

Paul

  • Registered: 2006-02-23
  • Posts: 78

Re: Rulebook construction questions

That's an excellent idea!  I still have my double-set of the old stand-ups, and I'm sure this would sell just as well as the "paper rpg" sort of downloadable figures.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

Page 21, Step 11.
"records.......all ammunition expended..."
Does not explain how much ammunition is marked off.
Chaingun specifies 1 ammo per ROF (5) and Ballistic weapons with launch tubes implies 1 ammo expended per tube fired.
What about other weapons with ROF greater than 1?

Paul

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Rulebook construction questions

any time a weapon with ammo fires, it marks off one from the ammo total.  The exception to this is the Chaingun which marks off 1-5 depending on what ROF was used in firing (suckers are ammo guzzlers).

Ballistic weapons are a bit different in that each tube is literally a weapon, which fires once.  So if you have four tubes, it's fire just one tube...or fire all four tubes...or whatever variation.  Regardless, each tube may fire only the one time without reloads available.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Rulebook construction questions

Thanks, I thought as much but the book does not say it.
Perhaps a paragraph could be added.
I do not know which prog was used to write the book, so I do not know how easy it is to change parts. Will the clarifications (like adding equipment OR to each weapon (page 56)) be made in an updated pdf version?
Just so that everyone will be on the same page (pun intended).

Paul

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