Topic: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Well, I've been investigating different smaller scale sci-fi rules and miniatures.  Everything from Epic:Armageddon, to Classic Battletech and miniatures ranging from Germy's 2mm sci-fi to Minifigs 10mm modern/historical stuff.  As well as Heavy Gear, CAV and a variety of 6mm sci-fi manufacturers.  Rules wise, my short list included CAV, Future War Commander, Iron Cow, Epic:A, Prophecy of War, Heavy Gear, etc.,.

I eventually decided on Wardogs and 10mm/N Scale stuff.  The reason is pretty much the design system and availability as a PDF.  There are certain elements I like in a game and while Prophecy of War, Future War Commander, Epic:A and others can handle them, Wardogs is pretty much the only one that does so and doesn't require large numbers of miniatures to be used to get a good game in.  Epic:A, FWC, Prophecy of War and others run at normal levels with 20+ tanks, 20+ stands of infantry and then just a few walkers tacked on if you're so inclined.  And it can get a lot higher as well.  It just seems like an awful lot of stuff on the battlefield given how battlefield troop density has been dropping since the 1800s.

I generally don't game with hexes.  I've done a lot of hard core chit based hex historical consim type wargaming and I generally cringe at hexes now.  So I'll just be doing a simple conversion to inches.  1 hex = 1" should work, but I may also try 1.5 and 2 if I have a larger table for a given game.

For N scale stuff, I'm going to go with DP9's Heavy Gear line for light mechs, Reaper's CAV for the heavy stuff and EM4's nice cheap plastic mechs for middle of the road type stuff.  They might look a bit small for 10mm/N-Scale, so I may also have them be remote operated virtual reality controlled mechs, or entirely AI controlled mechs.  I won't really be able to tell for sure if they'll work with an N-scale person piloting them or not.  I ordered 2 sets of 5 from EM4 to see what I think of them up close.

My next CAV order will wait a while.  I got a bunch of their VTOLs/Gunships off of eBay for a good price and those have arrived.  But no local store carries their CAV stuff and the one I want to deal with just placed an order with the distributor that carries Reaper stuff and won't be doing so again for a while (next month for Christmas releases, I think).  There's one local store that has an account with DP9, but unless the order is over $100, they insist that I pay their shipping charges.  So I may as well save the local sales tax and have it delivered right to my door.

Infantry are a bit harder of a choice.  Both Reaper and DP9 make excellent N scale size infantry (if a bit large).  Very sci-fi looking.  But I think there's nothing wrong with modern or even WW2 style infantry in a sci-fi game.  There's been some changes, but I don't see infantries appearance changing all that rapidly over the last 50 years.  Even the futurist magazine articles about the soldiers of the future don't look that different in their concept art.  So I'm probably going to order some infantry from minifigs.com and go for either their near future stuff or their modern Americans.  A couple packs will be more than enough infantry for both sides.  DP9 is also still a serious possibility.  When I finally do place an order with them, I'll probably add a platoon of their infantry just because.

Another benefit of N-scale/10mm over the traditional 6mm/1:285 (used by battletech and others) is that they're just big enough that some 15mm stuff can work as super heavy tanks and whatnot.  As well, it's just small enough that some larger 6mm stuff can work as well.  For example, the CAV VTOLs/Gunships are actually in 1:285 scale. 

Now terrain is where I'm really jazzed about N scale.  There are a variety of n-scale model railroad terrain manufacturers.  The Japanese stuff has the greatest use for sci-fi stuff and there are some great kits out there.  For example, here's a thread on a guy's collection of N-scale buildings for Heavy Gear (link to Dream Pod 9's forum):
http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=4072

I have some stuff en route from Japan myself.  An excellent factory made by Greenmax as well as a big pack of shipping containers.  My plan is to make a bunch of terrain pieces that are a transport hub/industrial settlement.  I'm planning on hitting a local model train shop and getting some tracks and some flat bed train cars. 

I'm not 100% sure about the layout yet, but I'm thinking I'm going to make sectional train track pieces.  Since a hex/inch is like 200 metres or something, the train tracks will represent transit corridors rather than just train tracks.  So they'll represent roads/highways as well as train tracks.  Anything can use them as roads.  The buildings will functionally form area terrain that counts as a city.  When you're miniatures are in 1:150 or so and the ground is in 1:8000, fudging is unavoidable.  Even if I want with the 2mm mico-minis, I'm still looking at 1:600 or so.  The vertical scale will be over 10 times the ground scale.

In a way, it's a good thing.  Having the ground scale be looser than the figure scale means you can get away with stuff like using the smaller 1:285 aircraft miniatures.  It basically puts the onus on it just looking right.  The smaller EM4 plastic mechs might end up looking fine alongside N scale buildings and infantry.  Since it all doesn't matter to the ground scale and Wardogs doesn't have silly ideas like using true line of sight with a laser pointer to see if you get cover or not, as long as it looks right, it'll work.

Anyway, if you ever consider using railroad track for terrain modelling and you don't need it to work as a model railroad, go for the lower code track.  Sure, it means that less cargo cars can actually go on it, but having a lower code track means the railroad tines are lower and it'll look less like a toy.  So there's scale (N, HO, O, Z, etc., and then there's code, which is the height of the tracks.  I'm going with N scale, code 55.

The main advantage to having things like trains and buildings, other vehicles and whatnot is that it really makes mechs look impressive.  Infantry help a little, but nothing helps quite like seeing something tower over a bus or a train.  Even smallish trees don't quite have the same effect as seeing a tiny bus or car beside a mech.

So I'm also thinking of getting some N scale construction equipment, maybe a bus or two and some cars.  I'll probably also get some N scale people, which I'll base up on stands as bystanders or hostages or whatever.  I'm going to have to hunt around for miniatures as the railroad people usually come prepainted and are expensive.

So the next step is getting the VTOLs painted as they are what I have.  When the first package of N Scale buildings arrive, I'll start on those.

Notable Links:
Germy's Micro Minis (cartoony 2mm sci-fi)
http://www.gtns.co.uk/store1/commerce.cgi?product=gmm&exact_match=on&cart_id=6263066.14818

Minifigs 10mm moderns
http://www.minifigs.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41_2_43_44&products_id=2290
Minifigs 10mm near future
http://www.minifigs.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41_2_295&products_id=2610

EM4 mecha (scroll down)
http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Science_Fiction.html

Dream Pod 9 infantry:
http://tyler.provick.ca/?p=220
http://tyler.provick.ca/?p=183

Reaper Gunships/VTOLs I have:
http://reapermini.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=988&cat=0&page=1
http://reapermini.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=998&cat=0&page=1
http://reapermini.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=944&cat=0&page=1

N Scale Track (not mine, just an example)
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/N_scale_test_track_1_.jpg
http://www.larkmodelworks.com/images/weekend/nv03.jpg

N Scale Flatbed Cars:
https://secure.atlasrr.com/mmMOD1/Images/38190A_TQ.jpg

The N Scale factory on it's way:
http://kampfgruppe144.blogspot.com/2006/01/greenmax-factory-diorama.html</r>

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Definitely on the ambitious side of things!  big_smile  Makin me jealous too since I don't have room to do anything like this (YET!)   lol

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Oh, this isn't going to take a lot of room.  I don't game out of my house.  A friend of mine has some tables we set up once a month on Saturdays when his wife does a split shift.  As well, there's a local club that rents a community centre once a month for big games.  All this stuff (including the terrain) is going to be transported to and from games in luggage converted to the task.  Like those ones with the roller wheels and the retractable handles or something.  It's even going by transit.  Right now I take things in a stiff walled duffle bag and a back pack.  I haven't had any damage from transport over the last 4 years of gaming out of house.

The tracks will get mounted on a base.  My current favorite material for terrain bases are cheap adhesive vinyl flooring tiles.  The ones that are like 3 or 4 for a dollar at Home Depot.  It's strong enough, but still flexible.  The actual floor pattern that you'd normally step on goes down and the stuff gets mounted on the adhesive side.

So the road/rail sections will likely be 3 inches wide and maybe 10 inches long and include straight pieces, curves.  I haven't worked with railroad track before, but I think the challenge is going to be making the ends universally connect and disconnect easily.  Most model railroad stuff is meant to be put down once.

Most of the buildings will be left without bases.  I make my own containers for things like that out of cheap tupperware type containers and cut up sponges, both from the dollar store.  That's how I have my warmachine miniatures for transporting.

The fiddlier stuff will be stuck on bases that are given magnetic boxes.  They'll be stuck to one side of the box and the fiddly part will be suspended in the air inside of the box with nothing touching it.

Trees will be given some sort of socket type design.  Maybe with tiny rare earth magnets.  So the trees will get packed together and their bases will have little holes or mounds with magnets in them.  The ones I have like that for bigger miniatures like 40k/warmachine get transported by putting them face to face with a bit of sponge over each of the mounds and then a big elastic band around the two.  I may make individual tree bases this time.  Probably use the microarmour trick of mounting them on pennies.  Since new Canadian pennies are ferrous, that makes for easy transport too.  A freezer container lined with magnetic strips from the dollar store should do fine.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Dude...right now I barely have room for my game books. All my mini's are packed away in storage, along with my tools and paints. smile  Not even enough room to put a table up here until I get my storage/hobby shed built.  :wink:

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

go0gleplex wrote:

Dude...right now I barely have room for my game books. All my mini's are packed away in storage, along with my tools and paints. smile  Not even enough room to put a table up here until I get my storage/hobby shed built.  :wink:

That would make hobby stuff difficult.  I thought I gave the impression that I was making some big table with all the terrain permanently put into it.  Like the impressive ones you might see at a larger convention or something.  But it's all portable type stuff with individual pieces.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

There are also a couple of companies that make 15mm mechs (i.e. 15mm tall), which can easily be customized with bits of wire and such, and depending on the size might work.  GZG make 3-4 different varieties.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

I was also thinking their 15mm power armour might work well also (for, well, power armour).  They have a variety throughout their 15mm Stargrunt range.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Yep, I have almost all of the 15mm infantry types, and some of them would work very well.  In fact, the "walkers" from the 6mm line (which are 12-15mm tall) would look pretty good as medium mechs compared to the 15mm PA, which are bulkier.  There is even a selection of melee types in the PA.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Well, the next thing I need to do is to figure out what to do for my mechs as far as colour scheme and theme are concerned.

Part of me wants to go with a WW2 across space theme.  The pros are rather obvious-- colour schemes are set, lots of historical decals available if I want them, lots of N-scale and 1:144 infantry and vehicles I can use and so forth.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Well, thanks to international mail starting to use teleporters, I got my N scale factory set from Japan and my mechs from EM4.  It's so strange that ordering stuff from Japan and the UK both costs less for shipping and is faster than ordering from within Canada.

I also found out I ordered the wrong set for the Factory.  Instead of ordering Greenmax Kit, 37, I ordered 38.  Fortunately this is a happy accident.  Instead of getting a bunch of pipes and factory gubbins, I got twice the number of actual building pieces.

<IMG src="http://sunny-life.net/picture/greenmax/38b.jpg">http://sunny-life.net/picture/greenmax/38b.jpg</IMG>

The picture makes it look tiny, but the building piece is a full 3 inches wide and a foot long.  It can also be assembled as two 3" by 6" buildings.  There's also a few extra bits as shown in the picture.

For some reason when I thought about N scale being twice the size of 1:285/1:300/6mm, it never fully donned on my that twice the linear dimensions means 4 times the footprint/actual size.  I thought I was going to be spending hundreds over the next few years to get the amount of table space covered with buildings that I wanted.  With it being twice as big as I thought, and the greater size of roads and allies between the buildings, I'm going to need a lot less to make my little industrial/transport hub than I thought.  This also means that the model train stuff I'm going to by is going to take up more space than I thought, so I'll probably have to get less track as well. 

The EM4 mechs arrived as well.  5 days from ordering to arrival, from the UK to the west coast of Canada.  Amazing.  Orders from the same province as me don't get here in 5 days unless they're practically local.  They are definitely a higher quality than the pictures on their site make them out to be.  Given that wardogs is primarily about mechs, I think I'll be working on these now and put the VTOLs aside until I get some infantry.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

That's some nice looking stuff.  May have to look into a bit of that myself in the future here...

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Here's some shots of Spaceman Spiff's painted ones:
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,38137.0.html
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,35521.0.html
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,35485.0.html
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36034.0.html
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36031.0.html
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32987.0.html

If you search/look through the general miniatures section of the CBT forums, you'll find spaceman spiff likes to photograph his miniatures in his city made up mostly of N scale buildings.  Pretty inspirational stuff.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Well, I've decided.  I am going to go with WW2 in Space.  I know the background text in the rules has some of this leaning already, but with a more hard sci-fi modern feel to it.

I'm also going to be getting into WW2 historical gaming in the same scale, so I figured it's a no brainer.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

Got things a bit more specific.  Japan vs USA

The USMC (United Stars Mechanized Corps) will be generalists, with every mech having a variety of weapon systems to accomplish lots of differing roles.

The Dai-Nippon Teikoku Kaigun will be specialists, with mechs built for specific roles equipped for just that one task.

As well, they'll both have infantry, tanks and VTOLs.  Once again, the initial military doctrine will be one of generalists vs specialists here as well, with the DNTK having fighters and troop transports while the USMC has troop carrying VTOLs that are capable of fighting.

This combat doctrine split is just for starters.  I'm sure me and my buddies will want to switch things up and have the sides modify their doctrines as they learn more from the actions of the spreading war.  I'm sure it won't be too long before the Britannian Empire and the Neo-Sovs get involved as well.  The Stellaren Königreich has also been militarizing recently as well.

Re: Nathan's Wardogs Plan (and Blog?)

any juicy updates Nathan? smile