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mj12games.com/forum → Starmada → Damage to upgrades
I have put the damage chart into version 24 of the shipyard, I will upload this later today, as soon as I have finished a revised "How to" pdf booklet.
Paul
Hmm, looks good and sounds simple enough...One wonders, "What sayeth Dan?"
Of course, if I do want to use it I have to re-modify my tweaked ship display sheet. Oh well, nobody said this fun hobby type stuff was going to be easy 
Cheers,
The problem with 2D6 is that it's a "curve" (not exactly, but similar) in that 7 is the most common roll. It might be better to assign systems to slot numbers. An example (if ship does not have a system that is rolled then treat as no effect), if multiple systems are listed then it's the defender's choice as to what is damaged:
2 : Blow Through! Armor plating has no effect on the damage roll (meaning 1s will do damage for that weapon hit)
3 : Fire control/Countermeasures out next turn
4 : All Launch Tubes/Teleporters out next turn
5 : Point Defense/Overthrusters out next turn
6 : Hyperdrive out two turns (such a fragile system 
)
7 : 50 Science/50 Hospital/100 Cargo/100 Repair/100 Transport/Bowling Alley ( :mrgreen: ) destroyed
8 : 50 Carrier space destroyed
9 : Stealth/Cloaking out next turn
10: 4 Anti-fighter Batteries destroyed/4 Mines destroyed/1 Marine (tough lil buggers, aren't they? 
) destroyed
11: Regeneration hampered this turn, only 1/6 chance of repairing hull damage
12: ship loses a damage control party (destroyed) (yes, means something else to keep track of, but you're already adding a lot more detail when this damage system anyway )
Instead of worrying about repairing these systems, I went with temporary damage for some systems otherwise a destroyed system is that: destroyed for the scenario. Another idea is to use the regular repair rolls and if a roll cannot repair an indicated system then it repairs any special system of the owner's choice (i.e., no engines are damaged but a roll indicates to repair an engine hit so the owner chooses to repair 1 AFB). Also, I put in fixed numbers to keep the amount of dice rolling down some. :roll: <--- (on ROLLing eyes)
The problem with 2D6 is that it's a "curve" (not exactly, but similar) in that 7 is the most common roll. It might be better to assign systems to slot numbers.
I didn't find it necessary. the owner decides what to assign to which number. I might add the requirement that the first slot to be used must be the 7, then 8 and 6, then 5 and 4, etc.
If you assign several modules to an unlikely result like a 2 or 12, then it's OK. When it gets hit, well you ran out of luck...
And there's a safety plug built in the system - when there's no upgrade for a rolled slot, then move to the next one until you reach an occupied one. Good enough for me. Very good.
I am just still unsure if I will count 'system damage' when Extra Hull Damage or Double Damage rolls a 6 to penetrate, but maybe when the to-hit and the to-penetrate dice are sixes.
Eg. you roll a 6 to hit - swap this d6 for another one of a different color and when this d6 rolls a 6 to penetrate - you damage one of the target's systems. Still not sure if I will change it - I haven't playtested it yet, but I really like OldnGrey's take on the subject!
If worried about the 2D6 curve use a D12 (ah yes starmada fans they do exist!)
On a 1 "Oh my god, they've hit the plumbing. Head for starbase 12 max warp... I.. Gotta....Go!"
It may well be unusual for a lot of ships to reach line 7 let alone 12 on the chart. As it goes, Fire Control will come first with Launch tubes, then equipment choices, Carrier flight capacity (One damage point for each flight carried) and finally the Auxiliary Services.
What I should have said is when Extra Hull Damage or Double Damage weapons actually penetrate the shields to cause damage. Or when a weapon scores 6+ on an IMP throw.
Paul
If worried about the 2D6 curve use a D12 (ah yes starmada fans they do exist!)
Don't get your Depends in a knot :mrgreen: , yes we know about d12s. But how often are you going to have one around with your Starmada stuff? You can roll 2 D6s to get the same effect (die 1: 1-3=die 2 as rolled, 4-6=6+ die 2). At first I didn't like the idea, but once I came up with my chart I started warming up to it. Especially when I added a couple extra things you normally cannot get, like the Blow Through! (armor plating bypassed for one weapon) and losing repair ability. The odds of those happening are low, being on the extreme ends of the chart, but it can happen.
Except for which weapon battery goes in which of the 3 locations, the player does not have any say so about anything else about damage. Die roll: 1-2 = engines, 3-4 = shields, 5-6 = weapons, odd = hull. So why let them have a say in how the special equipment damage chart should look like? I foresee a lot of munchkinism in allowing it.
Except for which weapon battery goes in which of the 3 locations, the player does not have any say so about anything else about damage. Die roll: 1-2 = engines, 3-4 = shields, 5-6 = weapons, odd = hull. So why let them have a say in how the special equipment damage chart should look like? I foresee a lot of munchkinism in allowing it.
That is what I thought about D12's, I also considered D10's and finally decided on D6's as Starmada is a D6 game.
The chart is supposed to be applicable to any ship, that is why it is filled by the spreadsheet. I did not intend that it be changed to suit. It is only the equipment in the middle that is influenced by the order in which it is chosen in the design of the ship. If high dice rolls are the in thing, then Transport if used will always take the hit first. No matter where something is "put" there is still the chance that it will go Kaput!
Still, I did say that it is just an option to try, something to think about.
Paul
Here's how the Damage Charts I came up with look on my sheet.
[attachment=0]Starmada Damage Charts.jpg[/attachment]
To save you from going back a page...
- Categorize existing systems as General, Defensive, or Offensive
-- General systems: Cargo, Hospital, Hyperdrive, Overthrusters, Repair, Science, Transport
-- Defensive systems: Armor Plating, Cloaking Device, Countermeasures, Point Defense, Regeneration, Stealth
-- Offensive systems: Anti-Fighter Batteries, Carrier, Fire Control, Launch Tubes, Marines, Mines, Teleporters
- Add 3 new damage charts (General Systems, Defensive Systems, Offensive Systems) with 6 boxes each
- Add systems to appropriate damage charts (one block per system so some blocks will be empty)
- When rolling Damage (from any hit) a (result of) 2, 4, or 6 (may) cause system damage
-- For each 2 roll on the General System chart
-- For each 4 roll on the Defensive System chart
-- For each 6 roll on the Offensive System chart
- Specific system degradations would need to be created (e.g. each Marine hit injures 5 squads)
- After a system is destroyed additional rolls are ignored
- When rolling on Damage Control chart systems may be restored
-- For each 1 or 2 roll on General System chart
-- For each 3 or 4 roll on Defensive System chart
-- For each 5 or 6 roll on Offensive System chart
I added a few words for clarity sake.
If for some reason a ship has all 7 of the General or Offensive options the 7th wraps around to the first block.
The sheet automatically fills in the table. But as I said before, exact details of what happens for each hit still need to be worked out. And you'd have to be using the optional Damage Control rules if you plan to cause damage to upgrades. Well I guess you wouldn't have to but I'm not sure how many space units and CR points people are willing to spend on something without redundancy that can be destroyed in a single shot.
Cheers
I think that I would add only two things, I like GamingGlen's idea of including Damage control and would put that on line 12 (fixed), One hit per die, since "damage dice", if used, are not chosen.
The other being to add ® to indicate equipment that can be repaired (Once only without returning to a base or space repair dock), marking off the ® and returning the O when repaired. Next hit, sorry, even Scotty cannot fix this.
At last a reason to protect that Pearl mobile repair facility.
Paul
My primary goal was expandability. A 2d6 chart (with temporary or transferring damage) is easy to cap out. So if a new upgrade is added the system needs to be rewickered. I usually try to come up with solutions that have growth built in because I get tired of redoing and redoing solutions. My secondary goal was to try and stay consistent with current mechanics so that the solution was easy to integrate.
Irreparable would work well in a campaign setting but not in a one shot game. Hopefully you get to play more campaigns then I do.
Cheers
My primary goal was expandability. A 2d6 chart (with temporary or transferring damage) is easy to cap out. So if a new upgrade is added the system needs to be rewickered. I usually try to come up with solutions that have growth built in because I get tired of redoing and redoing solutions. My secondary goal was to try and stay consistent with current mechanics so that the solution was easy to integrate.
Irreparable would work well in a campaign setting but not in a one shot game. Hopefully you get to play more campaigns then I do.
Cheers
Sorry, I should have said that I would think about adding the two things to the chart in the shipyard. Which, I doubt many people will fill. Even with all of the optional equipment that I put into the Starmada X versions I do not believe that I ever saw one design with 22 different pieces of equipment from the equipment table. There is still room for another 50 or so new equipment choices (without having to change the chart) but I am fairly sure that Dan would not like AE to go down the same path as Starmada X. There are only 14 official equipment choices in the equipment table.
Still, Starmada is all about choices, nothing is set in stone (unless Dan says it is).
Paul
I think Armor Plating is not something you can totally destroy. Like I put in my chart, it can be bypassed for a particular DMG roll (or rolls from the same IMP die if DMG>1) like a critical hit but cannot ever be destroyed to non-functional status for the rest of the scenario.
The same can apply to Regeneration. This would seem to be a shipwide ability of its hull, like human skin for humans. Perhaps it can be impaired momentarily (i.e., shock), but should not be a system that is totally destroyed in one shot. Or, it can have a set number of hits it can take before it becomes non-functional.
:idea: Borrowing from the Hyperdrive activating sequence method: each hit does 1D6 damage and when the total damage to Regeneration is 10 or greater then the Regeneration no longer functions (the system is repairing itself?). It's also something that cannot be repaired in the scenario. :idea:
I think Armor Plating is not something you can totally destroy. Like I put in my chart, it can be bypassed for a particular DMG roll (or rolls from the same IMP die if DMG>1) like a critical hit but cannot ever be destroyed to non-functional status for the rest of the scenario.
I think that there is a strong case for excluding Armor Plating, it being essentially part of the hull.
The same can apply to Regeneration. This would seem to be a shipwide ability of its hull, like human skin for humans. Perhaps it can be impaired momentarily (i.e., shock), but should not be a system that is totally destroyed in one shot. Or, it can have a set number of hits it can take before it becomes non-functional.
:idea: Borrowing from the Hyperdrive activating sequence method: each hit does 1D6 damage and when the total damage to Regeneration is 10 or greater then the Regeneration no longer functions (the system is repairing itself?). It's also something that cannot be repaired in the scenario. :idea:
More inclined to give Regeneration 3 hits, which it gets to roll for repair when the roll is made for the hull. If all 3 are destroyed the system is too (Worn out, chewed up, frazzled).
Paul
Hull, Engines, Shields and Weapons are covered under the basic damage rules and we have some ideas for System Damage but what we haven't talked about is damaging ammunition stores.
They technically fall under the Weapon but if we're going to allow Mines to be hit should we allow ammunition? Does it explode when hit? Do mines explode when hit?
If you're using Damage Control, probably not. The whole point of Damage Control is to return systems to operation. And it's pretty darn hard to restore exploded things to operation.
But if you're playing with 'system hits' then probably either could blow up. Do they do extra damage to the ship when they explode?
Just more thoughts. That actually spawn more thoughts I need to codify and post later.
Cheers
A question.
I will be revising the shipyard in light of Starmada Iron Stars, which has critical damage.
Does anyone want the damage chart in version 26 kept as an alternative, in addition to the official one?
Especially for VBAM.
Paul
Does anyone want the damage chart in version 26 kept as an alternative, in addition to the official one?
Especially for VBAM.
I see no reason not to keep it.
yep, as I don't know the official one yet. :oops:
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