• Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 359

Topic: Universe Creation

I was wondering how people would feel about creating a larger universe, either alongside of.... or in conjunction with.... the current Starmada Universe.

I was thinking of maps, similar to this Homeworld Map: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=134776|
that could be created for use. Considering the number of fleets in the Bourbaki Basin, and the shear creativity of the people here, this could be an ongoing process that would expand the game itself. Both Star Fleet Battles, and B5Wars were popular, and had the strong following that they developed, precisely because of the rich background fluff and support. This is double proven to be true with SFB, as the game history has definitely taken a different tangent from the television shows.... showing that the SFB Universe is most definitely a free standing entity. One of the reasons that Battletech has survived as long as it has, was due to having a rich background of material to draw concepts off of. Maybe we can create something similar for our own useage, and to help bring in new players. Having talked to a number of gamers, one of the reasons that Warhammer 40K is so popular is that they have a good amount of the background done - newer players have a harder time trying to create their own fleet from scratch --- so they either fall back onto current published material... or they try to incorporate something they already know, such as the Star Wars Universe, ect... which doesn't always work. Building a Star Destroyer in Starmada requires some re-work to get it right... for one thing, Starmada does not support the shear number of individual weapons, nor Tie Fighters that are listed for a Star Destroyer. Can it be done? Yes, but for a new player, it is a daunting task -- which brings the difficulty back around on the novice gamer. I believe that one of the reasons that Full Thrust is so popular is that the fleets are well made, and there is a good variety of them... allowing a player to choose a fleet that is well balanced against the rest, and yet unique from each other. Considering that (in my opinion) Starmada has a better design system, we should have a variety of fleets that are designed within the system for a new person to choose from.
Along with this, I am envisioning fleet books that support each racial fleet, plus maybe some history, and images of the various ships.....

Along with this, we could add VBAM stats for each, thereby supporting the campaign type play, as well as making it easy to assemble a fleet for pick up battles.

I'd really like to see other people's thoughts on this ---- if anything, we can open this as a discussion.

Nahuris

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Universe Creation

Just clarifying... We already have the fleets from ISS and H&C. You are suggesting putting those settings into a larger context and adding to it with additional fleet books describing the forces of additional factions?

I think it's a good idea. If the fleets can be differentiated in their capabilities (and I think H&C, in particular, does that well), then it does create that WH40k feel where players can choose a faction based on their style of play (or aesthetic preferences).

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 359

Re: Universe Creation

That was what I was hoping for.... I love Hammer & Claw, and think that we could really expand along those lines.

I know that I have had a couple of ideas for fleets, and having a context to add them into would allow me to create a whole culture to go with the ship designs. Don't get me wrong, I love playing with the shipyard programs, but to have those same ships designed for a fleet, having the fluff to go with it, and even having a few flawed designs (procurement offices are not perfect) that are now a part of the fleet is great.

If we have something solid, and readily available, I think we would have an easier time getting new players involved.
Yes, Starmada is a generic starship system, and would still function as that.... but for those who can't or don't want to have to create their own fleets, we could also have a variety of ships (complete with counters - if possible) that they can use as well.

Nahuris

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Universe Creation

I'm game (no pun intended). Were you envisioning this as fan-created content? Or did you have in mind supplements MJ12 would eventually publish?

A universe map, a la the Homeworld stuff you linked or SFB or WH40K or Traveller, would be a very cool place to begin. I will have to look more closely at ISS to see how compatible that is with H&C. To be honest, to date, ISS has been purely a rules-resource.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Universe Creation

Space Fleet: Omega started out as something intended to be 'fan driven', but it just didn't attract a lot of attention from those that might have had the chops to write up some interesting stuff. I'm not pointing any fingers - I could have contributed more than I did, I just didn't have any more time to do more than I did.

....real life and all that.
wink

  • Registered: 2008-03-15
  • Posts: 70

Re: Universe Creation

Having a "canon universe" with established races, plotlines, etc., would be a good thing. It's hard for a generic ruleset to attract attention without having specifics to capture the imagination of players, this I know from the rpg side of the hobby. Champions, for instance, could be about *anything* but players tend to gravitate towards the pre-established superhero universe. And, even tho I don't go for it, the RPGA rakes in players with their "Living Greyhawk" type series of adventures. A big master plotline in a set universe, with a series of programmed adventures and a programme of advancement (like earning ranks) for participating in adventures--that certainly resonates with some.

The trick is to balance the "official" side of things, while still having enough grey areas that creative types feel free to invent and create. If M12 decided to go that route, it would probably be one of their biggest decisions as a company.  It could take you down paths that you hadn't forseen (books and movies?) It could just be the tale that wags the corporate dog (for better or worse.) Then again, it might lead nowhere.

As such, I'd think carefully about what the canon universe is. While i like the ISS material, it may or may not be the best vehicle to provide the kind of loose/tight structure and organization that you're looking for. Just like any good story, there should be some over-arching themes, prominent characters, and conflict.

Lots of conflict.

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Universe Creation

Nice observations, Falstaffe. I think such a project should be directed by MJ12. Fan-driven content works best when their is a dedicated team that works well together or an extremely talented individual who is capable of generating excellent product.

The best scenario here, I think, would be for MJ12 to take up the idea and solicit ideas. Perhaps some fan here will display the talent needed to develop some of those ideas and emerge as a writer/developer for such a project.

Does anyone have any ideas?

For my part, I think Hammer & Claw might be a good place to start. Use that as canon and expand it.

Edit: After a quick readthrough, I think the ISS is an equally good place to start.  smile

  • Registered: 2008-03-27
  • Posts: 24

Re: Universe Creation

As I've thought of creating a 'universe' (or at least a small portion of a galaxy... smile ) with a common history for Starmada, I find this discussion interesting.  I also find the discussion a couple of threads below this one about generic weapons vs weapon traits and balance to also be interesting.

Some random thoughts merging the two threads a bit:

1. An official historical universe for Starmada could be fun.  But Starmada appears to always have had a different thrust, that being the flexibility behind it.  What you get instead are multiple source books each detailing a universe (or perhaps just different areas of the same universe).  This is a perfectly valid way to go...

2. If an official historical universe were ever created, I think no better example of how to do it 'right' could be found than the Star Fleet Universe (appropriate since 'Klingon Armada' has been announced).  In 'Star Fleet Battles', the races are balanced primarily against their 'local' adversaries and if the races start fighting against non-bordering races, supposedly balanced (by points) battles can be very unbalanced.  Additionally, some of these races themselves change over time.. The Kzinti for example: Their old ships were very drone heavy (strikers in Starmada terms) with more short range than long range phasers, because they had a lot of civil wars before they really interacted much with their neighboring races, the Klingons, Federation and Lyrans.  As such, their ships were perfectly fine for these civil wars, but not so much when they started conflicts with their enemies (and each race began to develop their own unique ways of dealing with drones).  Over time, their ships changed their focus to more heavy weapons and stronger phasers with drones more as an ancillary weapon (or at least probably only equal to their heavy weapons in importance).

In a nutshell, I find it most interesting if not every race is balanced perfectly against every other race.  Give the races unique identities and fighting styles that have been affected by their experiences with their neighboring races.

One way I thought of creating my own universe was to take 4 or so powers, create _very_ unique styles for each of them and then run a campaign of some sort (VBAM or even simpler) where each race contacts one or two of the others over time and can modify their weapons and systems slowly to account for changes in tactics needed.