Topic: New universe?

With the flurry of activity around SFO lately, and the recent talk of an "official" background for Starmada, I've been giving a little thought to universe development (never my strong suit... I tend to get distracted by shiny things... smile)

With the snow coming down again today (over a foot, with more tomorrow) I've had plenty of time to sit around and think about this. Here's what I've got:

I'm thinking of this as a "Star Wars" type setting, with far-flung empires and vast numbers of peoples and races; so much so that it can only be described in sweeping arcs rather than specific details.

Forgive the vagueness of what follows: very little is fixed in my mind...

A thousand-year empire has collapsed under the advance of an extra-galactic threat. That threat has been eliminated (we hope), but those who remain aren't exactly sure that they want to reinstate the empire as it was. Old rivalries and even older ambitions see an opportunity. A new government of a sort has been put in place, but it is deliberately weak and ineffectual.

Among the factions now at large, the most powerful (and thus the most threatening to the others) is that of the NAME? Think of a conflation of the Borg from Star Trek, the droid army from Star Wars, the Cylons from the original Battlestar Galactica -- fully robotic foot soldiers (or are they?), led by cyborg-type officers, directed by ... WHO?

Another faction of note is the Emperor in exile -- when the capital was sacked by the invaders, the seat of government was moved far away. Most of his old subjects don't recognize the legitimacy of this Emperor -- they consider the exile to be a completely different entity -- but the Emperor believes himself to be the legitimate successor to the old Empire. He plans to reclaim his birthright...

The Assembly is the newly-constituted centralized structure, but it has no power of its own. Although many of the old members of the empire send representatives to maintain appearances, it has not been invested with any real authority. It has managed to establish a military of sorts, but it is little more than a collection of member-contributed units (think the blue helmets of UN peacekeepers).

The remaining factions are ... ? I don't see them as all fitting a particular mold. Some are the noble houses of the old Empire, others are subject kingdoms getting their first taste of freedom in a thousand years, still others are corporate entities who see the chance to make a buck (or a credit).

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

and of course there's always the barbarians at the gates....pirates....and anarchists!

General outline works. Sort of a galactic wide low key civil war of sorts...with the proponents generally generated from the internal crash of the empire, tech levels would be an even keel 0 for development I assume? Or a bump one lower one sort of thing?

Was reading a book with a similar concept to this....Empire or Emporer of the Dawn or such title.  The legitimate emporer and his family were assassinated by another noble/group of fleet officers...the one guy they missed ran for a stronghold waiting for order to be restored...various system commanders went conquistador, though only one of them did so for the empire and not hisself...and of course there were the aliens at the borders trying to take advantage of things too.  Sounds a lot like what you're generally outlining Dan.  smile

Re: New universe?

go0gleplex wrote:

General outline works. Sort of a galactic wide low key civil war of sorts...with the proponents generally generated from the internal crash of the empire, tech levels would be an even keel 0 for development I assume? Or a bump one lower one sort of thing?

This isn't specifically for Starmada -- but yes, that would be the idea. No real powerful factions (otherwise, the political instability wouldn't last very long).

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

First on the list of things to flesh out... the "cybroid" forces of Magistrate Fuzhen Hitt:

Hitt rose to prominence during the wars, having been governor of one of the outlying provinces. While many of his counterparts were content to stay out of harm's way, citing the need to protect their own borders in order to resist Imperial calls for assistance, Hitt not only responded to his liege, he personally led his forces into battle. It was he who directed the defense of Thellas Minor in CR 2288, where his entire retinue was all but annihilated protecting the evacuation of thousands of Imperial troops.

For many years, Hitt was thought to have been killed at Thellas, hailed throughout the Empire as a fallen Hero. But in CR 2291, after the evacuation of the capital, Hitt resurfaced at the Second Battle of the Rim, at the head of his mechanical army -- the origin of which is still a mystery. Hitt and his armies played a crucial role in driving the Invaders out of the galaxy. Once victory was assured, only the treachery of one of his most trusted Generals prevented Hitt from claiming the Imperial throne for himself -- giving the Assembly time to consolidate its power.

Hitt is one of the few Successors who openly refutes the Assembly's right to rule -- he claims to act on behalf of the Emperor in exile, even though his forces have fought with the Golden Legions on several occasions. As a result, he has few allies; and there are few other powers in the galaxy whose differences are so great as to preclude them from joining forces against Hitt when necessary.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

possibly poor taste...but I gotta say it.

Are followers of Fuzhen Hitt called Hittlers?  :geek:

I can see self repair capability with this group. Using their fallen for spare parts on the march...crew killing weapons would have pretty minimal effect too since they're not organic and could be considered integral components of the ship. (Berserkers anyone?)

SIR! WE'RE BEING OVERRAN BY TINKER TOYS AND ERECTOR SETS!!!  AIYEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Re: New universe?

go0gleplex wrote:

Are followers of Fuzhen Hitt called Hittlers?

That'd be a no...

Hittites, maybe. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

(based on the idea of it being Starmada-related)

I nominate the Benevolent and Righteous Empire of the Kwarworc Ercnal (doffs cap to Terry Pratchett)

The BREKE was one of the founding members of the empire, but they have existed through several such periods in galactic history. However, most of the time it was easier to leave the Ercnal alone than to confront them. Their phenomenal ship defences combined with the tactical flexibility of their weapons meant that any confrontation lasted shortly.

Luckily, there are a few factors that has kept the Ercnal from taking over the galaxy. One is their extremely low birthrate combined with their extremely old age. It is said that the Imperator is over a thousand years old--but that has yet to be substantiated. Lifespans of 500 years are common.

The second is their isolationist policy. Despite their being a member of the empire, Ercnal space was always given 'special' status. Do not trouble us, the Ercnal seemed to say, and we won't wipe your species off the face of the universe. In return for the special status, the Imperial forces did not have to worry about raiders or other troublesome elements nearby, which eased the coffers of the Empire...slightly.

The third, a byproduct of the first, is their extremely slow rate of technological advancement. Part of this is due to the fact that the Ercnal defences are so excellent, but mostly because when your average lifespan is 500 years, you don't tend to rock the boat too much.

After the empire ended, the Ercnal did no more other than to enforce stability on the border regions and prepare for the end of empires as the Ercnal have done so many times before.

Re: New universe?

So, rather than develop SFO, we're writing a new setting?

Might SFO be a PART of this new setting? The government you describe isn't that far away.

Re: New universe?

thedugan wrote:

So, rather than develop SFO, we're writing a new setting?

Not necessarily instead of ... but yes, I would like effort to go into this first. Mainly because I'm not sure what I want to do with SFO, and I don't want people getting too far ahead of me. wink

Might SFO be a PART of this new setting? The government you describe isn't that far away.

I suppose it's possible -- but then again, the SFO setting is more situation-specific (collapse of the wormhole network) that would short-circuit a lot of what I'd like to see in this one.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

I nominate the Benevolent and Righteous Empire of the Kwarworc Ercnal (doffs cap to Terry Pratchett)

That looks so much like it should be something spelled backwards, but Lancre Crowrawk doesn't mean anything to me. smile

And why are we doffing a cap to Mr .Pratchett?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

cricket wrote:
go0gleplex wrote:

Are followers of Fuzhen Hitt called Hittlers?

That'd be a no...

Hittites, maybe. smile

Horrid pun, dude....

Re: New universe?

cricket wrote:

With the flurry of activity around SFO lately, and the recent talk of an "official" background for Starmada, I've been giving a little thought to universe development (never my strong suit... I tend to get distracted by shiny things... smile)
With the snow coming down again today (over a foot, with more tomorrow) I've had plenty of time to sit around and think about this. Here's what I've got:

Given what you've said about SFO, and of the various interpretations of it, I think I'll just do a web-comic "re-interpretation" when I get some time.


cricket wrote:

I'm thinking of this as a "Star Wars" type setting, with far-flung empires and vast numbers of peoples and races; so much so that it can only be described in sweeping arcs rather than specific details.

Forgive the vagueness of what follows: very little is fixed in my mind...

A thousand-year empire has collapsed under the advance of an extra-galactic threat. That threat has been eliminated (we hope), but those who remain aren't exactly sure that they want to reinstate the empire as it was. Old rivalries and even older ambitions see an opportunity. A new government of a sort has been put in place, but it is deliberately weak and ineffectual.

So, this is post-invasion....

I would assume that the strength of whatever central cohesive force/nation(s) has been spent repelling the threat.

FWIW, I'd say that at least one of the main players in the old empire has been "bombed back to the stone age" - that would give us the removal of a main player so that it's collapse is more believeable.

The secondary powers are no the ones that are attempting to keep the new government weak, so that "the playing field is level".

cricket wrote:

Among the factions now at large, the most powerful (and thus the most threatening to the others) is that of the NAME? Think of a conflation of the Borg from Star Trek, the droid army from Star Wars, the Cylons from the original Battlestar Galactica -- fully robotic foot soldiers (or are they?), led by cyborg-type officers, directed by ... WHO?

I"d have robotic types being led by normals, but having implants is commonly done afte war injuries. Hitt's okay, but I'm not that enamored of some of the details.

cricket wrote:

Another faction of note is the Emperor in exile -- when the capital was sacked by the invaders, the seat of government was moved far away. Most of his old subjects don't recognize the legitimacy of this Emperor -- they consider the exile to be a completely different entity -- but the Emperor believes himself to be the legitimate successor to the old Empire. He plans to reclaim his birthright...

I can't see an "Emperor" actually existing. Kingships are based on "The Divine Right of Kings", and their assumed superiority. Historically, it's a religious construct.


cricket wrote:

The Assembly is the newly-constituted centralized structure, but it has no power of its own. Although many of the old members of the empire send representatives to maintain appearances, it has not been invested with any real authority. It has managed to establish a military of sorts, but it is little more than a collection of member-contributed units (think the blue helmets of UN peacekeepers).

The UN or NATO without US firepower.....


cricket wrote:

The remaining factions are ... ? I don't see them as all fitting a particular mold. Some are the noble houses of the old Empire, others are subject kingdoms getting their first taste of freedom in a thousand years, still others are corporate entities who see the chance to make a buck (or a credit).

Will ponder.....

Re: New universe?

thedugan wrote:

So, this is post-invasion....

I would assume that the strength of whatever central cohesive force/nation(s) has been spent repelling the threat.

FWIW, I'd say that at least one of the main players in the old empire has been "bombed back to the stone age" - that would give us the removal of a main player so that it's collapse is more believeable.

See below -- the Imperial homeworld was sacked/destroyed/whatever. "Back to the stone age" might be appropriate...

I"d have robotic types being led by normals, but having implants is commonly done afte war injuries. Hitt's okay, but I'm not that enamored of some of the details.

Not following you, here...

I can't see an "Emperor" actually existing. Kingships are based on "The Divine Right of Kings", and their assumed superiority. Historically, it's a religious construct.

No offense, but this isn't accurate -- while the Divine Right of Kings did exist in many cultures, it was not a universal concept. Heck, many countries have a King in modern times; few of them still claim to have been divinely appointed. It was abandoned in Great Britain, for example, over 300 years ago, yet there have been lots of Kings since then.

And even if it were true, why would you assume that religion will play any less of a role in the future than it has in the past?

As far as "Emperor" goes, historically the title is given to a King to whom other Kings owe allegiance. Besides, Empires are a sci-fi opera staple...

The UN or NATO without US firepower.....

I'm still thinking about this, but I have always been fascinated by the idea of a neo-feudal military, where vassal states are required to contribute a certain number of troops to the collective defense. It can lead to some interesting balancing acts; for example, the central authority would want to get as much support as possible from each vassal, but not so much from an individual state that its loss would cripple the central military.

Another possibility would be to have the central authority limited to an officer corps -- it would still have to rely on contributions from the vassal states for the rank-and-file...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

So, this is post-invasion....I would assume that the strength of whatever central cohesive force/nation(s) has been spent repelling the threat.

FWIW, I'd say that at least one of the main players in the old empire has been "bombed back to the stone age" - that would give us the removal of a main player so that it's collapse is more believeable.

See below -- the Imperial homeworld was sacked/destroyed/whatever. "Back to the stone age" might be appropriate...

..okay...


cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

I"d have robotic types being led by normals, but having implants is commonly done afte war injuries. Hitt's okay, but I'm not that enamored of some of the details.

Not following you, here...

Someone posted something about a guy named "Hitt", you even made a pun about it. That needs some work.



cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

I can't see an "Emperor" actually existing. Kingships are based on "The Divine Right of Kings", and their assumed superiority. Historically, it's a religious construct.

No offense, but this isn't accurate -- while the Divine Right of Kings did exist in many cultures, it was not a universal concept. Heck, many countries have a King in modern times; few of them still claim to have been divinely appointed. It was abandoned in Great Britain, for example, over 300 years ago, yet there have been lots of Kings since then.

I had assumed that it would die out. Today's culture is so secular, that I assumed the trend would continue.

cricket wrote:

And even if it were true, why would you assume that religion will play any less of a role in the future than it has in the past?

One would hope that Faith had as much a role in the future as the past - that you would consider not sidelining it complicates things, but gives us more story-hooks - Interesting ones, to be sure. smile

cricket wrote:

As far as "Emperor" goes, historically the title is given to a King to whom other Kings owe allegiance. Besides, Empires are a sci-fi opera staple...

Fair enough, I can see you're attached to the idea, and see no major problems with it - other than it's perhaps overused.

It was good enough for Herbert....
big_smile


cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

The UN or NATO without US firepower.....

I'm still thinking about this, but I have always been fascinated by the idea of a neo-feudal military, where vassal states are required to contribute a certain number of troops to the collective defense.

Pretty common thing in the Middle Ages, no modern equivalent that I can think of...

cricket wrote:

It can lead to some interesting balancing acts; for example, the central authority would want to get as much support as possible from each vassal, but not so much from an individual state that its loss would cripple the central military.

Another possibility would be to have the central authority limited to an officer corps -- it would still have to rely on contributions from the vassal states for the rank-and-file...

I think selecting the "Ratings" of your forces from Vassals would be more stable, as you minimize the Nobility's influence on the Military. If you give the enlisted ranks a decent education, or one that's superior to what they get on their Homeworld, you engender their loyalty.

The Nobility might be in the Military, but they are carefully placed to avoid their death or bad influence on the troops.

Re: New universe?

cricket wrote:
murtalianconfederacy wrote:

I nominate the Benevolent and Righteous Empire of the Kwarworc Ercnal (doffs cap to Terry Pratchett)

That looks so much like it should be something spelled backwards, but Lancre Crowrawk doesn't mean anything to me. smile

And why are we doffing a cap to Mr .Pratchett?

Ah, damnit, its Kwahworc Ercnal. Backwards, its the Lancre Crowhawk, a species of hawk in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. If I remember correctly, its other name is the wowhawk, like a goshawk but less forceful. It is a carnivore always looking for the vegetarian option...:D

Re: New universe?

thedugan wrote:

I had assumed that it would die out. Today's culture is so secular, that I assumed the trend would continue.

To me, todays culture is still very religious. There are lots of things that indicate it is religious. However, I don't want to start an argument, especially as this is a polite forum by some forum's standards, so I'm not going to even go there...

Re: New universe?

murtalianconfederacy wrote:
thedugan wrote:

I had assumed that it would die out. Today's culture is so secular, that I assumed the trend would continue.

To me, todays culture is still very religious. There are lots of things that indicate it is religious. However, I don't want to start an argument, especially as this is a polite forum by some forum's standards, so I'm not going to even go there...

...which is why I emphasized 'interesting'. Being something of a Pedant myself, no matter how you address this, someone is going to squawk about it. Despite efforts to the contrary, many words mean different things to different folks. While my take on certain religions might lead me to adopt a certain point of view, someone else's experience's might have been much less 'fun'....

Most SciFi games I"ve seen ignore religion, most TV shows I've seen use it as a plot device to justify something odd.

If religion is going to be an active part, may as well have Protestants, Catholics, Contemporary Christian, Mormons, Buddhists, Confucism, Brahmist, WIccans, Muslims, Worshippers of the Lucid Shirt Button - and cast them in a neutral light rather than "that nut with a crucifix carved in his forehead screaming on the street corner".
==================================================================

Now, tell me more about the mechanics of how the military arms co-ordinate, and the nature of the threat that destroyed the Old Republic.

And how advanced/retarded are the successor states in regard to the old republic?

Re: New universe?

thedugan wrote:

Now, tell me more about the mechanics of how the military arms co-ordinate, and the nature of the threat that destroyed the Old Republic.

"Old Republic"--probably should stay away from that; I think it's trademarked by Lucasfilm. smile

Military arm cooperation: don't know, yet. But I am leaning towards the idea of an "aristocratic" officer class that owes its allegiance to the Assembly itself, with the rank-n-file contributed by member states. The effectiveness of this setup varies with the quality of the officers...

Another thought would be to have a core of "elite" Assembly troops, supported by contributed state troops.

And how advanced/retarded are the successor states in regard to the old republic?

Varies ... but not by much. Merely being part of the Empire conferred a technological benefit, through trade, cooperation, etc. At the same time, the lack of (or reduced) inter-factional competition likely retarded advancement to some extent.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

thedugan wrote:

Someone posted something about a guy named "Hitt", you even made a pun about it. That needs some work.

What needs work -- the name "Hitt", or my pun? (Which really wasn't a "pun", strictly speaking...)

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

Ah, damnit, its Kwahworc Ercnal. Backwards, its the Lancre Crowhawk, a species of hawk in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. If I remember correctly, its other name is the wowhawk, like a goshawk but less forceful. It is a carnivore always looking for the vegetarian option...:D

Yeah... not so sure about naming factions after stuff from other peoples' work, even if it is backwards. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: New universe?

I think we should being back the Donegali! (Negali just doesn't have the same ring)

Re: New universe?

cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

Now, tell me more about the mechanics of how the military arms co-ordinate, and the nature of the threat that destroyed the Old Republic.

"Old Republic"--probably should stay away from that; I think it's trademarked by Lucasfilm. smile

Heh...granted...


cricket wrote:

Military arm cooperation: don't know, yet. But I am leaning towards the idea of an "aristocratic" officer class that owes its allegiance to the Assembly itself, with the rank-n-file contributed by member states. The effectiveness of this setup varies with the quality of the officers...

Another thought would be to have a core of "elite" Assembly troops, supported by contributed state troops.

I'd go with both....

Basic armed forces are usually led by more-or-less loyal commisioned nobles, with the occasional 'peasant' rising to the officer corp through bravery, ability, or whatever...

The Assembly also has some 'elite' troops, like our Airborne, SEALs, etc.


cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

And how advanced/retarded are the successor states in regard to the old republic?

Varies ... but not by much. Merely being part of the Empire conferred a technological benefit, through trade, cooperation, etc. At the same time, the lack of (or reduced) inter-factional competition likely retarded advancement to some extent.

..and conversely, quite a bit of diversity amongst the hardware, I'd imagine.

Re: New universe?

cricket wrote:
thedugan wrote:

Someone posted something about a guy named "Hitt", you even made a pun about it. That needs some work.

What needs work -- the name "Hitt", or my pun? (Which really wasn't a "pun", strictly speaking...)

Both...
big_smile

Re: New universe?

What about the bad guys? and the thing that broke the Empire?

Should we start posting factions? Noble Houses?

Re: New universe?

What...with the example of our ecomony and the middle east we're not good at breaking things ourselves?!?! :shock:  lol

As demonstrated through history, once an empire expands beyond its communication ability it can no longer effectively govern leading to splintering, division, revolt, etc. Then we have the power hungry machovellians (sp) and intrigue...fleet commanders out on the fringe where the emporers authority is administered by his own fleet ships...

Subject alien races would be definitely prone to the revolt, particularly if they were biding their time for their technology to catch up to the superior imperials. It would be unlikely for a higher tech alien force to be involved since they a) would have already been a known enemy and held off only by the sheer numbers of imperials; b) any aliens with superior tech within the boundaries of the empire would have been wiped out and their tech assimilated or playing nice and organizing a third column to bring the empire down from within....

:ugeek: