Re: Federation CA data card

alchemist wrote:

Quick question / comment on the Fed CA photons...  The data card shows that overloaded photons are slow loading but normal photons arent.  A big part of Klingon / Fed duals in SFB / FC is that the photons are all 2 turn arming weapons (thus slow loading) versus the single turn lower damage per turn weapons on the klingon ships.

It's like that because I needed a drawback to the overload setting, since there is no power allocation in Starmada.

If the standard photon is slow-firing, then what is the negative to overloaded photons?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Federation CA data card

Spence wrote:

The biggest thing I see that feels off is the ranges.  Effective phaser range always exceeded photon and disruptor range.

Again, I only played SFB once or twice in college, so I can't speak from experience. But in FC, weapons all fire out to 25 hexes, except for Phaser-3s and overloaded heavy weapons.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Federation CA data card

Spence wrote:

that is why you always saw D-7's in groups of 3.

I thought D7s came in threes because that's how you saw them in the TV show. smile

(At least, in "The Enterprise Incident" -- but those were D-7Rs, anyway...)

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Federation CA data card

Akalabeth wrote:

Different factions use different ship class names for what are basically comparable craft. So yes a Klingon Battlecruiser is roughly comparable to a Federation Heavy Cruiser. FASA's old Star Trek Tactical Combat Simulator was supposidely even worse, and one Fed CA was a match for not one but THREE Klingon BCs.

Constitution-class cruiser = D 64.6 / WDF 12.4 = CE 801.4
D-7 class cruiser = D 54.6 / WDF 20.4 each = CE 1113.84

The D-7 actually outclasses the Constitution...

Gosh, but I LOVED the FASA game. wink

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Federation CA data card

cricket wrote:
alchemist wrote:

Quick question / comment on the Fed CA photons...  The data card shows that overloaded photons are slow loading but normal photons arent.  A big part of Klingon / Fed duals in SFB / FC is that the photons are all 2 turn arming weapons (thus slow loading) versus the single turn lower damage per turn weapons on the klingon ships.

It's like that because I needed a drawback to the overload setting, since there is no power allocation in Starmada.
If the standard photon is slow-firing, then what is the negative to overloaded photons?

Vewy, VEWY slow-firing.
Or...
Heinously slow-firing.
wink

Re: Federation CA data card

cricket wrote:
alchemist wrote:

Quick question / comment on the Fed CA photons...  The data card shows that overloaded photons are slow loading but normal photons arent.  A big part of Klingon / Fed duals in SFB / FC is that the photons are all 2 turn arming weapons (thus slow loading) versus the single turn lower damage per turn weapons on the klingon ships.

It's like that because I needed a drawback to the overload setting, since there is no power allocation in Starmada.

If the standard photon is slow-firing, then what is the negative to overloaded photons?

They take TWICE AS MUCH POWER....

Power is life in SFB...

I'm not sure if you can hold an overloaded photon, either - it's been a while.

Re: Federation CA data card

underling wrote:
cricket wrote:
alchemist wrote:

Quick question / comment on the Fed CA photons...  The data card shows that overloaded photons are slow loading but normal photons arent.  A big part of Klingon / Fed duals in SFB / FC is that the photons are all 2 turn arming weapons (thus slow loading) versus the single turn lower damage per turn weapons on the klingon ships.

It's like that because I needed a drawback to the overload setting, since there is no power allocation in Starmada.
If the standard photon is slow-firing, then what is the negative to overloaded photons?

Vewy, VEWY slow-firing.
Or...
Heinously slow-firing.
wink

Naw, that would be a KZINTI with overloaded photons....
big_smile

Re: Federation CA data card

Hey Cricket, I would suggest going over to the FC forums and read about he tactics used in Fed Com. Then I would suggest playing a few games to get the feel of how it plays.

The game is all about maneuver and power. That is pretty hard to simulate in Starmada (power)

....................Doug

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=5


also if you can find some Fed Com players near you or at a con to playtest.

Re: Federation CA data card

Inari7 wrote:

Hey Cricket, I would suggest going over to the FC forums and read about he tactics used in Fed Com. Then I would suggest playing a few games to get the feel of how it plays.

The game is all about maneuver and power. That is pretty hard to simulate in Starmada (power)

Exactly ... which is why this won't (cannot) be a straight SFB/FC "port" into Starmada.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Federation CA data card

Without power allocation it isn't too hard to see abstractly how maneuver will be important when weapon arcs and the different shield facing strengths are listed.  But with the slow speeds of Starmada compared to SFB (is FC similar?) maneuvering won't matter that much.  Still, it wouldn't hurt to play a few games of FC to help understand how the ships should be designed.

Re: Federation CA data card

Playing a few games of FC would totally violate Dan's design mantra of...

Playtesting???
Bah!!!
Who needs it?!?
wink

Re: Federation CA data card

I decided to make a Star Trek specific version of the shipbuilder spreadsheet, changing some system names in the process (i.e., Hyperdrive to Warp Drive, Teleporters to Transporters), I came up with some ideas and/or changes, especially in relation to SFB. 

I changed "Science" to "Science Stations" (LABs in SFB) and made each one take up 50 spaces.  To me, this gives a better meaning to the SUs allocated to science equipment and laboratory room space than "Science (200)".  And perhaps, a Science Station can be used to determine something (like LABs do in SFB); nothing that important (no CRAT rating) but good for scenario specific actions (i.e., roll 1 die per Science Station and if any die rolls a 6 ... ).

I changed "Hospital" to "Hospital Beds" and made each one take up 10 spaces.  "Sickbay" would fit the theme better, but using Hospital keeps it Starmada-like; plus Sickbay might be a term for a larger area.  I'm not sure of the actual space for each bed, but it should include whatever equipment and storage is needed to support a hospital bed, and probably a portion of the operating space that might accompany it.

Re: Federation CA data card

The game is more of a port of FC, not SFB, right?  FC took SFB and streamlined it significantly.
I own FC and have been going through that to compare to Starmada.
I have been trying to come up with someway to make the Starmada shields feel like FC...

Re: Federation CA data card

Quick question, and I'm sorry since I haven't thoroughly perused all the threads for the info, but: the shields work like fixed screens it would seem?

Re: Federation CA data card

Depends...
The way it works in Starmada is that there is always a chance that hit will get through...whether they are up or not. That is why I was trying to figure out a way to make ablative shields that always offer an absorbtion amount until enough damage has been scored to down the shield.  In FC, there are a certain number of shield boxes that can absorb damage before being dropped in each arc.

Re: Federation CA data card

The problem is the scale of weapon damage and how Starmada shields/screens work. 

One thing I thought about trying is with the shielding Dan has shown us on these SSDs, but using the normal Starmada rules, is that when a ship takes damage from one source (i.e., one ship, one fighter squadron) then the shield facing that source must take at least one hit if any damage rolls results in a shield hit.  The rest of the shield hits can be assigned by the defending ship's player; although I'm tempted to have those other shield hits rolled randomly to determine which ones take damage.

An example: Ship Avarice takes fire from an enemy ship, which will check impact penetration through the F (forward) shield.  Six damage dice penetrate and are rolled for: 2,2,3,4,5,5.  Since there are two shield hits, then one must be applied to the F shield and the other one applied as the defender wishes.

Whatcha think?

Re: Federation CA data card

GamingGlen wrote:

 
One thing I thought about trying is with the shielding Dan has shown us on these SSDs, but using the normal Starmada rules, is that when a ship takes damage from one source (i.e., one ship, one fighter squadron) then the shield facing that source must take at least one hit if any damage rolls results in a shield hit.  The rest of the shield hits can be assigned by the defending ship's player; although I'm tempted to have those other shield hits rolled randomly to determine which ones take damage.
An example: Ship Avarice takes fire from an enemy ship, which will check impact penetration through the F (forward) shield.  Six damage dice penetrate and are rolled for: 2,2,3,4,5,5.  Since there are two shield hits, then one must be applied to the F shield and the other one applied as the defender wishes.
Whatcha think?

If I had to guess, I'd say this might be in the ballpark.
wink

Re: Federation CA data card

I figure we keep tyring long enough, someone will come up with ablative shielding...or atleast a simulation there of.

Re: Federation CA data card

GamingGlen wrote:

One thing I thought about trying is with the shielding Dan has shown us on these SSDs, but using the normal Starmada rules, is that when a ship takes damage from one source (i.e., one ship, one fighter squadron) then the shield facing that source must take at least one hit if any damage rolls results in a shield hit.  The rest of the shield hits can be assigned by the defending ship's player; although I'm tempted to have those other shield hits rolled randomly to determine which ones take damage.

For the playtests this weekend we did the following: roll a die for each shield point lost. On a 4-6, the player gets to pick which facet is reduced; on a 1-3, it has to come from the one facing the attack.

It worked pretty well... smile (Details to come soon.)

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Federation CA data card

this was initially kind of a strange thing for me. adding a die roll seemed a lot more fiddly, but in the end I think it manages to simulate "power" (you can take away a shield point on the opposite side of the ship, and call it power-reallocation)

Re: Federation CA data card

You could cut down on the die roll by having every other shield hit having to apply to the facing shield.

I think this might be too much damage to the facing shield, though.  Weapons do a lot more damage versus shield strengths in Starmada compared to SFB.  Perhaps every third hit, starting with the first, should apply to the facing shield.  So it would be on shield hits 1,4,7,10.  But I guess only playtesting will really see what the differences might be like.

Re: Federation CA data card

GamingGlen wrote:

I think this might be too much damage to the facing shield, though.

That seemed to be the case this weekend -- the facing shields were knocked down rather quickly. On the other hand, it didn't matter much; since shield damage doesn't take effect until the end of the turn, it was relatively easy for players to rotate their ships to move the reduced shield out of arc...

I was also thinking of a 1/3 ratio, although in my case I was going to change the die roll: 1-2 = the facing shield takes the hit; 3-6 = player's choice.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Federation CA data card

Playing at Die-Con the extra die roll for shields 1-3 facing shield, 4-6 players choice worked well and didnt slow things down as much as I initially thought it would.

Facing shields tended to drop fairly quickly,  although the chance that the facing shield could take no damage from a full alpha strike (if all 4+ were rolled on shield hits) feels kind of wrong.   Id like to see the facing shield take the first shield hit if possible, although i guess you could abstract it and say if the shield wasnt damaged it was just heavily reinforced.

Alchemist

Re: Federation CA data card

I'm still liking my idea (of course smile  ) that the first shield hit automatically goes against the facing shield.  This guarantees, if a shield hit is rolled, that it will take damage like shields do in SFB.  Whether the rest of the shield hits are defender's choice, rolled for facing or not facing shield, or randomly distributed (there are 6 shield facings, and the game uses a six-sided die  wink ) which could still hit the facing shield, is a matter of testing and what effects are desired.

But I thought of something else, and the mentioning of 'reinforced shields' reminded me: pseudo power allocation. *ducks from flying objects*  big_smile .  I only thought about how to apply it to shields using the current shield system that was just tested.  Since a die roll of 1-3, or even a possible 1-2 as suggested, applies to the facing shield, then, like how Armor Plating protects against hull damage, Reinforced Shielding protects a particular shield in that a roll of 1 to determine what shield is hit is ignored.  But it has to be the facing shield that is reinforced.  How do you reinforce a shield?   From about the only power source that Starmada has: engines.  As a plotting option, you may reduce your current maximum engine output by 1 to reinforce one shield facing.  You may only reinforce one shield facing in each turn.  I know this could open up a lot of problems and/or a whole slew of options/suggestions for powering certain weapons systems, but right now if kept to shields then it may not get out of hand.  From the show itself, you hear many times that the captain asks engineering to reinforce shielding and this could help give KA that flavor.

Re: Federation CA data card

In FC, if a shield it up, it has some value of protection...until that protection is chipped away by hits.
I like the idea of the first hit being taken by the shield with additional hits rolling.

Example: If the front shield has 15 boxes available and a hit takes 8 pts, that leaves you with 7 available to absorb damage. If another hit comes in and does another 8 pts, then the shield protects against 7...leaving one point that gets through and you have to roll to see where it goes.

I also like the idea that when a weapons is hit, the weapon should be in the arc the hit came from.  A weapons hit from the front shouldn't take out a phaser bank in the rear.