Topic: Just want to ask something...

about Stealth generators and various weapon effects (sorry if this has been asked before, but I looked at the FAQ and I couldn't find it...)

Regarding inverted range modifiers and range-based DMG/PEN/ROF, does the stealth generator affect these?

Example: A weapon with inverted range modifiers is being fired at a vessel at medium range with stealth generator. Does the weapon hit the target with a +1 modifier, or as a 0 modifier? (I think it is +1...)

Example: A weapon with range-based ROF is being fired at the same vessel at the same range. Does it get two dice or one? (I think its one, but I want to make sure)

Re: Just want to ask something...

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

about Stealth generators and various weapon effects (sorry if this has been asked before, but I looked at the FAQ and I couldn't find it...)

Regarding inverted range modifiers and range-based DMG/PEN/ROF, does the stealth generator affect these?

The ship with the stealth generator shifts the range band up by one, for better or worse.

Thus, in your two examples, the inverted range mods would give a +1, and the range-based ROF would get one die (although the target is really at medium range, the SG shifts this to long range, with all the appropriate combat changes).

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Just want to ask something...

Thanks--just thought I'd ask before making a complete fool of myself (whaddya mean, too late?) tongue

Re: Just want to ask something...

cricket wrote:

Thus, in your two examples, the inverted range mods would give a +1, and the range-based ROF would get one die (although the target is really at medium range, the SG shifts this to long range, with all the appropriate combat changes).

Having said this... I'm beginning to rethink my position.

The RULES would indicate that the above is the correct interpretation (but who are we to abide by RULES? smile ).

"Reality" would indicate that perhaps the range-based ROF weapon should still get its 2 dice against a SG-equipped target at medium range. The SG doesn't affect the distance, but rather the interpretation of that distance by the shipboard sensors. Thus, targetting effects, like for the inverted range mods, would be affected.

However, I presume that a weapon with range-based ROF/PEN/DMG has these effects due to some physical characteristic of the weapon, and not due to sensors or other "soft" characteristics. So perhaps the SG should not affect these?

Just wondering aloud on a Monday morning...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Just want to ask something...

Do you really want to start down the "true range versus effective range" road, Dan?  That way lies madness...and SFB!  smile

Rich

Re: Just want to ask something...

When I think about it, Dan's second interpretation makes more sense. Targeting is dependent upon various factors which can make a ship appear closer or futher than they actually are. Range based damage, however, is a physical property of the weapon and should only rely upon the actual range of the targe. In a way, the additional complexity of different ranges, a la SFB, makes sense in this context (and besides, since you split To Hit, Pen, and Dam, it is very easy to state in the rules that the stealth generator only affects To Hit and everything else is left alone).  smile

Re: Just want to ask something...

It that depends on the weapon, doesn't it?

If it is a missile, for instance, with on-board guidance systems to open into a MIRV (for instance) at a certain range... the SG may spoof those guidance systems just like the ship board sensors and the MIRV may misfire for effectiveness in either ROF/PEN/DMG.

Or if the on onboard systems plot the spread and velocity of shots, but they have incorrectly projected the target's position then the ROF / PEN could be disrupted.

Re: Just want to ask something...

I've updated the FAQ with this response, cause I think it is the best aswer and because it is my FAQ

Dan wrote:

The ship with the stealth generator shifts the range band up by one, for better or worse.

Thus, in your two examples, the inverted range mods would give a +1, and the range-based ROF would get one die (although the target is really at medium range, the SG shifts this to long range, with all the appropriate combat changes).

jim

Re: Just want to ask something...

jwhsu wrote:

When I think about it, Dan's second interpretation makes more sense. Targeting is dependent upon various factors which can make a ship appear closer or futher than they actually are. Range based damage, however, is a physical property of the weapon and should only rely upon the actual range of the targe. In a way, the additional complexity of different ranges, a la SFB, makes sense in this context (and besides, since you split To Hit, Pen, and Dam, it is very easy to state in the rules that the stealth generator only affects To Hit and everything else is left alone).  smile

I kinda like this...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Just want to ask something...

Well, as I see it there are two interpretations and Den can only give one as a ruling so here is what I see

1) Stealth Gen effects apply to the range bands no matter what

2) stealth gen applies to the ROF rolls only no matter what

which is is oh captain my captain

jim

11

Re: Just want to ask something...

As a player please take the simpler choice.  The whole appeal to me is the simplicity of the system, once you start (which I know there already are) adding exceptions to a clean rule, the simplicity is lost.

Re: Just want to ask something...

jimbeau wrote:

Well, as I see it there are two interpretations and Den can only give one as a ruling so here is what I see

1) Stealth Gen effects apply to the range bands no matter what

2) stealth gen applies to the ROF rolls only no matter what

which is is oh captain my captain

jim

Sorry-- I'm not yet willing to issue a ruling.

As the rules stand right now, Stealth Gen shifts the range band up one level, for good or ill.

However, I'm willing to consider changing this if appropriate after a comprehensive "real vs. effective" range debate...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Just want to ask something...

then you've ruled for #1, Stealth Gen applies to the range bands no matter what.

(good choice, IMHO)

jim