• From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Topic: Ship size classes

In musing about the Starmada rules lately, I've wondered if it might not be a Good Idea to label each ship as being of one of five size classes:

Hull 1-3 = Very Small
Hull 4-8 = Small
Hull 9-15 = Medium
Hull 16-24 = Large
Hull 25-35 = Very Large

(Iron Stars players may recognize this distribution... smile )

The reason is that we could then provide this as part of the ship description (e.g., "Klaion-class BC, Hull 6 [S]"), which might make it easier to remember certain size-based rules, such as spinal mount ranges and expendable weapon costs.

Thoughts?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-30
  • Posts: 272

Re: Ship size classes

Sounds feasible.  Maybe an optional rule making larger ships easier to hit, or something like that?  Was that what you were thinking?

Rich

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 137

Re: Ship size classes

Full thrust has three categories:  escort, cruiser, and capital.  An interesting rule in the campaign system is that no more than 50% of the ships in your navy can be in the same category, neatly avoiding extreme "one giant superdreadnought" and "thousand points of hot, fusiony death" strategies.

I'm planning to do something like this in my Hull Breach stuff, with "scout", "patrol", and "capital" corresponding to your first three categories.  I currently don't allow mobile ships above size 12, but stations can make 20.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Ship size classes

hundvig wrote:

Sounds feasible.  Maybe an optional rule making larger ships easier to hit, or something like that?  Was that what you were thinking?

Actually, that wasn't what I was thinking, but it's a good idea... smile

I just thought that since we'd already established the breakpoints (via a couple of optional rules), they should be codified in case the sizes become useful for other purposes -- such as, for example, size-based to-hit mods.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Ship size classes

mundungus wrote:

Full thrust has three categories:  escort, cruiser, and capital.  An interesting rule in the campaign system is that no more than 50% of the ships in your navy can be in the same category, neatly avoiding extreme "one giant superdreadnought" and "thousand points of hot, fusiony death" strategies.

Not a bad idea... assuming we're okay with cribbing from FT. smile

So, perhaps a "pyramid" scheme, in which there cannot be more ships from a particular size class than there are in any of the lower classes? e.g., if I've got 3 L ships, I have to have at least 3 each from the VS, S, and M classes?

It might also make ship nomenclature easier to deal with...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Ship size classes

I'd rather see something that gives mass a use

48.9KmT Small class    (72)
Hull: 5 4 3 2 1 Engines: 3 2 1 Shields: 2 1
[a] Weapon [3/6/9, 4+, ROF 3, PEN 3, DMG 3]
ab
Hyperdrive [O]
1[HQ], 2[Ea], 3[H], 4[E], 5[H], 6[S]

49.1KmT Small Class (45)
Hull: 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 Engines: 3 2 1 Shields: 2 1
[a] Weapon [3/6/9, 4+, ROF 1, PEN 1, DMG 1]
ab ab ab
Hyperdrive [O]
1[Ha], 2[E], 3[H], 4[S], 5[H], 6[Q]

How do we  work something like this into the mix?

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Ship size classes

jimbeau wrote:

I'd rather see something that gives mass a use
[...]
How do we  work something like this into the mix?

Well, so far 'mass' is not an official Starmada value-- it's just a little piece o' fluff computed by the SXCA. I'm not sure it will ever become official, as player's perceptions of how big each hull point is will vary...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Ship size classes

Well, so far 'mass' is not an official Starmada value-- it's just a little piece o' fluff computed by the SXCA. I'm not sure it will ever become official, as player's perceptions of how big each hull point is will vary...

But this is a great way to start making it "official" isn't it?  I mean ship size calsses aren't "official either, and Mass seems to be more official than even size at this point (I mean it IS in the SXCA)

jim

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Ship size classes

jimbeau wrote:

But this is a great way to start making it "official" isn't it?  I mean ship size calsses aren't "official either, and Mass seems to be more official than even size at this point (I mean it IS in the SXCA)

Actually, the size classes are "official", in that the breakpoints have already been defined in a couple of optional rules... they just haven't been named yet.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Ship size classes

Whoah, that's sneaky.

I am embarrassed that I missed that smile

jim

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Ship size classes

however, I still don't like tying the size to the hull. And Mass is such a neat stat too.

I'm probably the only one in the world who'll argue that, though, so go ahead <sigh> make it "official". big_smile

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 287

Re: Ship size classes

In a word...

yuck

I think this whole topic area is very universe specific...

Or even race specific.

What if I am a race of spacefaring gophers? My super immense dreadnaught of hull 97, may still only be a human size 6.

This way lies madness.

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Ship size classes

spacefaring gophers.

hm.

I think you may already have reached madness.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Ship size classes

jimbeau wrote:

spacefaring gophers.

hm.

I think you may already have reached madness.

I've written up some Space-faring Rats for Space Fleet Omega, I see nothing whatsoever wrong about Space-faring gophers....

There were some interesting ideas about that in the 'Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' Roleplaying Game. Triceratons, anyone? :-)

It's better than the 'weird rubber nose of the week' that we get with Star Trek....

I think it ought to remain optional, I think it is universe specific, if not race-specific.

Starmada is a good generic set of rules - what it needs is some fleshed-out campaign universes like the Dwarfstar Galaxy thing and SFO. You can't help but build up a bigger fan base by having a great set of rules and an great optional campaign universe to go with it.

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: Ship size classes

Yeah...

And BTW, its Sagittarius (damn, I never spell it right) Dwarf Galaxy--the galaxy that, in a couple of thousand/million years will be torn apart by the Milky Way...

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Ship size classes

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

----------------------------------------------------
Yeah...
And BTW, its Sagittarius (damn, I never spell it right) Dwarf Galaxy--the galaxy that, in a couple of thousand/million years will be torn apart by the Milky Way...
----------------------------------------------------

I knew that....I like, just forgot the ..like.... name, dudester.....ya know?

Mike - Surf's Up!

...my caffeine levels aren't, though...

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Ship size classes

Taltos wrote:

In a word...

yuck

I think this whole topic area is very universe specific...

Okay. I think I'm not expressing myself clearly enough.

I'm not trying to pin players down to particular sizes for their frigates, cruisers, battleships, etc. What I'm trying to do, in a meta-sense, is codify the groupings of ships that we've already established in various optional rules...

The more I think about it, the less I think this would represent a change in any sense of the word -- it would just be applying the breakpoints across the game.

Make sense?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 287

Re: Ship size classes

cricket wrote:

I'm not trying to pin players down to particular sizes for their frigates, cruisers, battleships, etc. What I'm trying to do, in a meta-sense, is codify the groupings of ships that we've already established in various optional rules...

The more I think about it, the less I think this would represent a change in any sense of the word -- it would just be applying the breakpoints across the game.

Make sense?

Yes. It makes sense.
Definitely something different than I thought you were trying to do.

I guess I just don't see why...
Without knowing/understanding the optional rules in question, I guess I cannot connect what you are trying to achieve.  :?