Topic: Space Stations -- proposed rule

Comments, please.

SPACE STATIONS
(This option is incompatible with option B.16: Flotillas.)

For the purposes of these rules, “space stations” are any non- (or semi-) mobile man- (or alien-) made independent construct, regardless of its intended function. Thus, anything from an orbital defense platform, to a drydock, to a full-fledged sector headquarters can be simulated using this option.

What is not covered are planetside and asteroid bases. Such installations will be covered in a separate option.

Although space stations are often spherical or ring-shaped, without any definite “front”, the model representing a station on the game board must have a facing identified for it, so that firing arcs, shield facets (option B.15: Faceted Shielding) and related functions can be tracked.

The main difference between a space station and a starship is that, while stations have engines for maintaining orbit and rotation, they are not designed for tactical movement. Therefore, the following rules apply to stations:

1)    Provided a space station performs no forward movement, it may be turned in place up to a number of hexsides equal to its current engine rating. For example, a station with an engine rating of 2 could rotate up to 120° in a single Movement Phase.

2)    If a space station performs any forward movement, its engine rating is effectively cut in half, rounded up--e.g. an engine rating of 3 is reduced to 2, while a rating of 1 stays the same.

There is a benefit to this relative lack of mobility, however. Because a space station is a (relatively) stable weapons platform, provided it performs no movement at all, a station may re-roll (once) any to-hit dice that miss.

EXAMPLE: A space station fires a weapon (ROF 3; ACC 5+) at a target at medium range. Three dice are rolled, coming up 1, 4, and 5. The 5 scores a hit, while the two misses are re-rolled, coming up 2 and 6. A total of two hits has been scored on the target.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

I'll have to give this a try.

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

It sounds good -- and the stability rule makes them especially tough nuts to crack. Does this mean bases with no engine rating would not spin at all? Or just that they would not be able to control the spin?

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

MadSeason wrote:

It sounds good -- and the stability rule makes them especially tough nuts to crack. Does this mean bases with no engine rating would not spin at all? Or just that they would not be able to control the spin?

Good question. I'd be tempted to say stations without an engine rating cannot rotate at all, just to keep things simple.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

cricket wrote:
MadSeason wrote:

It sounds good -- and the stability rule makes them especially tough nuts to crack. Does this mean bases with no engine rating would not spin at all? Or just that they would not be able to control the spin?

Good question. I'd be tempted to say stations without an engine rating cannot rotate at all, just to keep things simple.

And, I just realized ... a ship/station that does not have a speed can turn to face any direction it likes, since the thrust requirement is always zero if the previous speed and current speed are both zero.

May have to think about that, either for stations specifically or for the game in general...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

oooooooo....nasty gunners on those floating tin cans. smile

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

I wouldn't tie spinning movement to engine rating. A space station that is spinning for reasons of artificial gravity for example doesn't need constant thrust and wouldn't stop spinning or change direction. Under the proposed rules a station would stop to spin when the engine rating is reduced to zero by damage. This woul render some narrow arc weapons effectively useless.

I think stations should have a engine rating of zero and automatically spin 60° clockwise or not depending on the designers choice. You could introduce this as a ship feature (Spinning Station and Station). This would be even more simple and serves the purpose.

I also think stations are usually known for their toughness and large amount of weapons. The latter is already taken care of with no engines to waste space. In addition to that I would make damage rolls of 1 and 2 essentially meaningless to reflect a structure primarily build to last not to be able to fly around. Well with no engine rating hits on 2 would do nothing anyways but hits on 1 wouldn't cause the usual hull damage (Armor plating effect). The huge amount of weapons you can fit on a no engine hull 10 "ship" for example should be already good enough.
CR wise the loss of movement should cancel out the added durability or you add the armor plating modifiers.

Stations that can move (slowly) as seen in some background material can be ships with a very low engine rating. They will still have more space for weaponry but are essentially slow moving ships.

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

Shugyosha wrote:

I wouldn't tie spinning movement to engine rating. A space station that is spinning for reasons of artificial gravity for example doesn't need constant thrust and wouldn't stop spinning or change direction. Under the proposed rules a station would stop to spin when the engine rating is reduced to zero by damage. This woul render some narrow arc weapons effectively useless.

I see your point, and recognize the concern, but I am wary of creating special cases for space stations that wouldn't apply for starships; i.e. "realistically" there's no reason a ship couldn't continue to spin when its engines are gone.

Whatever the rule is for stations, it should be consistent with the rules for starships -- which is why I realized there's a problem, what with the movement rules allowing free spins for any ship that has zero speed.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

cricket wrote:

Whatever the rule is for stations, it should be consistent with the rules for starships -- which is why I realized there's a problem, what with the movement rules allowing free spins for any ship that has zero speed.

I see but the rules regarding engine rating cut in half when moving and weapon rerolls are also exceptions. Free spin would be constant so basically a "no-brainer" during the movement phase. Whether or not this uses actual engine rating my concern is that the station may chance facing at will or stop due to damage.
I believe constantly spinning one hexside every turn or remaining completely stationary is the thing everyone expects from sci-fi space stations. On the other hand I know that Starmada is and always have been about flexibility.

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

I remember some of the space station rules from the Starmada Compendium edition. 
One of these doubled the range of weapons because the space station was stationary.  What are peoples thoughts on this?  :geek:

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

My vote would be for no engines but a maximum of two overthrusters allowing the station to rotate up to 120 degrees per turn.

Paul

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

Irony, I just posted a starbase on the forums too.
The reroll any to hit die is a bit ^.-, but other than that i like it.

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

Just one thing that I'd like to clear up:

I assume that the incompatible with flotillas is simply that you can't have a flotilla starbase, not that you can have either starbases or flotillas on the board, but not both...

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

Just one thing that I'd like to clear up:

I assume that the incompatible with flotillas is simply that you can't have a flotilla starbase, not that you can have either starbases or flotillas on the board, but not both...

You are correct. The "incompatible" bits in Appendix B only apply to a given starship -- you can, for example, have some ships on the board using screens and others using regular shields.

I should probably make that clear(er).

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

BeowulfJB wrote:

I remember some of the space station rules from the Starmada Compendium edition. 
One of these doubled the range of weapons because the space station was stationary.  What are peoples thoughts on this?  :geek:

Cool...
Then you could have weapons that go out to 60 hexes.  wink

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

underling wrote:
BeowulfJB wrote:

I remember some of the space station rules from the Starmada Compendium edition. 
One of these doubled the range of weapons because the space station was stationary.  What are peoples thoughts on this?  :geek:

Cool...
Then you could have weapons that go out to 60 hexes.  wink

Carronade weapons would be hilarious, close range weapons that STILL shoot further than any other

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

BeowulfJB wrote:

One of these doubled the range of weapons because the space station was stationary.  What are peoples thoughts on this?  :geek:

That wasn't exactly the rule.

Space Stations in pre-X Starmada were considered to have "Long Range Sensors", which doubled the long range band. Thus, a weapon with a range of 15 would, on a station, have range bands of 1-5/6-10/11-20.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

Yes, it doubled the long range band of weapons if I recall. I think that rule was dropped primarily because of the change made to LRS in S:X.

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

Id keep starbase / battlestation rules simple and pretty much within the existing rules.

- Bases do not have engines.
- Bases can spin to any direction just like ships without engines.
- Engine hits dont do anything because there are no engines, giving bases more staying power than ships.
- Structural bracing allows bases to use C.3 Expanded ranges even when not allowed for ships.

This makes bases somewhat tougher than ships as they ignore 'engine' hits and have a bit more internal space for their size to use for equipment, again because they dont have engines, and the Expanded ranges gives them stand off weapons that bases typically have but at a cost instead of a tradeoff for ships versus bases.

Thats my vote at least.  What do you folks think?

Alchemist

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

^ has my vote

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

alchemist wrote:

Id keep starbase / battlestation rules simple and pretty much within the existing rules.

- Bases do not have engines.
- Bases can spin to any direction just like ships without engines.
- Engine hits dont do anything because there are no engines, giving bases more staying power than ships.
- Structural bracing allows bases to use C.3 Expanded ranges even when not allowed for ships.

This makes bases somewhat tougher than ships as they ignore 'engine' hits and have a bit more internal space for their size to use for equipment, again because they dont have engines, and the Expanded ranges gives them stand off weapons that bases typically have but at a cost instead of a tradeoff for ships versus bases.

Thats my vote at least.  What do you folks think?

Alchemist

Seconded.

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

alchemist wrote:

Thats my vote at least.  What do you folks think?

So, essentially... reinstate the space station rules from the Compendium? smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

cricket wrote:
alchemist wrote:

Thats my vote at least.  What do you folks think?

So, essentially... reinstate the space station rules from the Compendium? smile

Close.  Except instead of having a special rule doubling the long range band you just use the existing C.3  which allows for bases that dont have better weapons than ships, and those that do.  Its all depends on how the base is constructed.

Alchemist (aka another dan)

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

Against. Bases shouldn't have special rules. They are the same sizes and in the same medium as starships. SU saved by not mounting engines CAN be plowed into bigger guns and stronger defenses.

Re: Space Stations -- proposed rule

japridemor wrote:

Against. Bases shouldn't have special rules. They are the same sizes and in the same medium as starships. SU saved by not mounting engines CAN be plowed into bigger guns and stronger defenses.

Im not for special rules either.   All of the items in my proposal are how the existing starmada rules work now if you make a ship that doesnt have engines.  The only addition is to typically allow bases to use C.3 expanded ranges to reflect the longer range weapons often available on such platforms due to the structural bracing allowing by a design thats not meant to move.

Alchemist