Topic: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

This came up in the Files section but I thought it would get wider coverage here.

I've been having problems matching the CRAT numbers on the published ships in Klingon Armada.

Here is the D7 calculated with MyShipbuilder v6.0b. The red text are the detailed numbers. I also calculated this with pencil, paper & calculator, and matched this exactly.

Maybe Dan or one of the other experts can point out where my calculations are going wrong vs the published 282 CRAT.

Type: D7, Battlecruiser, Klingon (275)
Hull: 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Engines: [TL0] 6 6 5 4 4 3 2 2 1
Faceted: [TL0] 14 13 11 10 8 7 5 4 2
Facets: (3,2,2,2,2,3) Base DRAT: 33.75
Weapons: [TL0]
Battery V: Phaser-1, 5/10/15, 1/4+/1/1, Range-Based ROF
[abcd] [abcd] [abcd]
Base SU: 15, Total SU: 225, ORAT: 315
Battery W: Phaser-2, 4/8/12, 1/5+/1/1, Range-Based ROF
[acf] [bde] [ce] [ce] [df] [df]
Base SU: 8, Total SU: 160, ORAT: 240
Battery X: Mode1: Disrupter LR, 6/12/18, 1/4+/2/1
Mode2: Disrupter LR (OL), 6/12/18, 1/5+/4/1, Carronade           
[ab] [ab] [ab] [ab]
Base SU: 24, Total SU: 288, ORAT: 384

Special: [TL0] Drone Rack (3) ORAT: 180 DRAT: 7.2; Marines (14) DRAT: 14; Probe (5) ORAT: 60; Science (100); Shuttle (2) ORAT: 30 DRAT: 1.2; Tractor Beam (3) Base SU: 2, Total SU: 42, ORAT: 84; Teleporters (5) ORAT: 50

Fighters: [TL0]               
3xDrone, 4/8/0, (Seeker/4+)               
2xShuttle, 1/4/0, (Boarding Pod/5+)(Seeker/4+)

Total ORAT: 1343
Total DRAT: 56.2
Total CRAT: 275

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

You appear to have an ORAT of 28 for each tractor beam: they should be 22, which would bring your ORAT total to 1325.

You're missing a DRAT of 4 for the probes (0.8 each), which would bring your total to 60.2

1325 x 60.2 = 79765^.5 = 282.4

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

Thanks. I forgot the multipliers for Anti-Fighter & Fighter Exclusive. (28*.78=21.84 or 22) :oops:

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

This is a little strange.
Tractor Beam calculated as a weapon (with Anti-Fighter and Fighter Exclusive) comes to 1.56su, which with six arcs comes to 10.92 (and would give the lower ORAT) 21.84.
However, if the base SU is rounded up as per the core rules page 29 (not including TL adjustment) to 2su, then the ORAT comes to 28.

Probes (in this case with Engines 6).
Calculated as a weapon, gives an ORAT of 12.5. Using the calculation in klingon Armada page 32, 12.
Weapons do not get a DRAT. Using the ammo rules would give an 0.8 mod to the ORAT.
There is no mention of a DRAT in the book for probes.

Paul

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

Dan,
Re: Probes.
If you maintain that they have a DRAT of 0.8 (Not in the Klingon Armada book)(at least not mine).
Why not re-write it along the lines of:
Probe (Equipment)(May be used as a 360° "One-shot" weapon).
Each Probe takes up 5SU, ORAT as per Divisor below and DRAT of 0.8.

When used as a weapon, use the following game stats: RNG 6. ROF 1, ACC 4+............
----------------
BTW.
Pages 28 & 29. No Multiplier for Double-Ranged Modifiers, ok it is x1.0 but some may wonder.
No Multiplier for Slow-Firing.

Dual-Mode Weapons example, you have used 0.8 for Carronade instead of 0.7. (there is that 0.8 again!) smile
Overload should therefore have a base of 11.03, Photon torpedo a final Base SU requirement of 23.

Could you please share your calculation for the Tractor Beam having an ORAT of 22? the 0.78 that bekosh mentions would have been applied to the weapon base calculations before rounding up, therefore resulting in 2 either way.
Thanks.
Paul

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

The overloaded photon has both carronade and doubled-ranged modifiers so the .8 is correct per the chart in C.4.1 in the Rules Annex.

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

Once again, the denizens of the forum are right, and Dan is wrong.

Two things happened:

(1) I applied rounding to the tractor beams AFTER applying the (Arcs + 1) multiplier, not before. This is incorrect according to the Core Rulebook (although I have to wonder if the rule should be changed, particularly in the case of really small base SU values).

(2) Early on, probes were going to be seekers, and so a DRAT was included in the spreadsheet I was using. However, after I found out they are direct-fire weapons in SFB/FC, I changed them to direct-fire weapons in Starmada -- but for some reason neglected to remove the DRAT from the spreadsheet.

The bad news is that all of the ships in KA are point-costed incorrectly. The good news is that the difference is VERY minor... a net change of -2.2%. The biggest change is -13 points (the Battle Station goes from 813 to 800 points). And since all the ships are reduced in cost, the relative change is even smaller.

After careful consideration, I'm not going to worry about it. Yes, the values are "wrong", and yes, it's frustrating to those of you trying to recreate the ships on your own -- but in terms of game balance, it's really a non-issue. However, remind me to run the ships from Romulan Armada by you guys first... smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

OldnGrey wrote:

Dan,
Re: Probes.
If you maintain that they have a DRAT of 0.8 (Not in the Klingon Armada book)(at least not mine).

See mea culpa above.

Pages 28 & 29. No Multiplier for Double-Ranged Modifiers, ok it is x1.0 but some may wonder.
No Multiplier for Slow-Firing.

Earlier in the book I mention that those options from the Core Rulebook do not have their construction/point-cost information included.

Dual-Mode Weapons example, you have used 0.8 for Carronade instead of 0.7. (there is that 0.8 again!) smile
Overload should therefore have a base of 11.03, Photon torpedo a final Base SU requirement of 23.

Actually, I was right for once... 0.8 is the multiplier for combined Carronade/Doubled Range Modifiers.

Could you please share your calculation for the Tractor Beam having an ORAT of 22? the 0.78 that bekosh mentions would have been applied to the weapon base calculations before rounding up, therefore resulting in 2 either way.

See mea culpa above.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

Oops, Sorry.
I see what you mean, those combined traits get soooo much use smile forgot they were there.
I had not thought of it before, since Double Range modifiers changed should the combined range traits be modified?

Paul

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

cricket wrote:

The biggest change is -13 points (the Battle Station goes from 813 to 800 points).

I'm having trouble with this one too. With the revised Tractors & Probes, I get a CRAT of 738, I had 740 before revision.
I changed the SU's to 120% and the ACC divisors per the book.

Type: Battle Station (738)               
Hull: 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Engines: [TL0]
Faceted: [TL0] 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Facets: (3,3,3,3,3,3) DRAT Base 90
Weapons: [TL0]
Battery V: Phaser-3, 3/6/9, 1/4+/1/1, Anti-Fighter
[abcd] [abcd] [acef] [acef] [bdef] [bdef]   ORAT 240

Battery W: Phaser-4, 8/16/24, 3/5+/1/1, Range-Based ROF
[abcd] [abcd] [acef] [acef] [bdef] [bdef] [abcdef]  ORAT 3052.5

Battery X: Mode1: Photon Torp, 5/10/15, 1/4+/1/3, Doubled Range Mods
Mode2: Photon Torp (OL), 5/10/15, 1/4+/1/5, Carronade; Double Range Mods.; Slow-Firing
[abcd] [acef] [bdef] [abcdef] [abcdef]  ORAT 870
           
Special: [TL0] Cargo (500); Drone Rack (2)  ORAT 120 DRAT 4.8; Marines (24)  DRAT 24; Probe (5)  ORAT 25; Science (100); Shuttle (4)  ORAT 60 DRAT 2.4; Teleporters (4)  ORAT 40; Tractor Beam (4)  ORAT 84
   
Fighters: [TL0]               
2xDrone, 4/8/0, (Seeker/4+)               
4xShuttle, 1/4/0, (Boarding Pod/5+)(Seeker/4+)               

ORAT: 4491.5
DRAT: 121.2
CRAT: 738

Re: Help with ORAT/DRAT/CRAT calculation.

bekosh wrote:

I'm having trouble with this one too. With the revised Tractors & Probes, I get a CRAT of 738, I had 740 before revision.
I changed the SU's to 120% and the ACC divisors per the book.

Seriously... can't you people just leave well-enough alone? big_smile

It appears the space station divisors in the book are incorrect. *sigh*

I will add the correct values to the errata sticky.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com