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mj12games.com/forum → Game Design → RPG?
So, if MJ12 did decide to publish a role-playing game, what would people want to see?
Lots of square roots...:)
So, if MJ12 did decide to publish a role-playing game, what would people want to see?
Um...ZOMBIES!
Are you asking what we would like to see "Mechanically"/rules-wise, or setting?
If it is setting (which I think is where you were going with this) my vote would be for something "steampunk"-feeling that could be worked together with Iron Stars.
Of course I'm still on my first cup of coffee of the day so my opinions are subject to change as I become increasingly conscious.
Cheers,
Erik
I'm not looking for anything in particular... just asking the question: what comes to mind when you think "MJ12" and "RPG"?
Fantasy RPGs are what most people want to play, what most people go back to playing, and what drives the industry.
However, when I think MJ12, I think Sci-Fi and steampunk. While an RPG in neither one of those is likely to make you rich, a well-received RPG in either genre could be quite successful. Given MJ12's current stable of offerings, I think an Iron Stars RPG would be an awesome place to begin.
And a good reason to create a poster map of Earth and the Solar System in the Iron Stars universe. 
I'm not looking for anything in particular... just asking the question: what comes to mind when you think "MJ12" and "RPG"?
I think modular and easy to understand/play. Any MJ12 RPG would certainly be able to be adapted to any or at least lots of different genres and settings. Steampunk, space opera and Anime would all be good places for the core system to "live". The mechanics of the system should be based on the fewest number of dice types possible (1 hopefully) and focused on being fun and flexible. I like ROLE playing games and despise RULE playing games.
Cheers,
Erik
I concur. Iron Stars is probably the best place to start, simply due to the fact that there are fewer Steampunk/Victorian RPGs out there. The next logical "universes" that may benefit from such would be Starmada (if not already being done using Traveller rules) and Wardogs (also if not already being done with another rules set).
There are several good mechanics out there from which to build on, such as the SIEGE system, Uni-System, and the venerable d20 (which I'd rather not see in use due to super saturation of material already).
Blacklancer is right in that it should be fewest die rolls possible...in addition to as unified a dice mechanic as possible. ie, not needing 4 different dice to resolve any given action, etc.
Nada.
Zip.
Zilch.
Not a damn thing.
Absofuckinglutely nothing.
An RPG is more than likely going to be a major resource hog, and take up a huge amount of time that could be used to develop all of the other stuff... that's not getting developed.
Since no one had even come close to offering up the other side of the discussion, I thought I'd step up and discuss the worthlessness developing an RPG, when there are plenty of them out there to do about any setting you want to do.
Kevin
Given the current state of rules systems, and the trend towards 'old fashioned' AD&D/D20-styled systems that seem to be proliferating on the internet, I'd say something like a pared-down AD&D/d20-based system.
Other simple systems -
-- TWERPS
-- Tri-stat (AKA Big Eyes Small Mouth)
Settings? Yeah - Victorian (from the Iron Stars Universe) would be ok, so would Anime ((a more free form Starmada or Iron Dogs setting). You might just do a MJ12-branded fantasy version of D&D.....
Personally I prefer Savage Worlds and dnd 4e because they are miniature centric. I dont think that I need another rpg system.
If MJ12 wants to develope a rpg system then please only one which supports miniature gaming. It should be VERY easy to grasp but allow for tactical decisions and combat should be played on a grid or gridless.
There are rpg systems out there with high production and entertainment value. For example DnD 4e has extremely good support with beautiful coloured tactial maps coming with each single combat enounter and prepainted cheap plastic minis. Topping this with will be difficult. And a cheaper alternative without georgeous grafics and maps looks always a little bit...well cheap. 
IMO to be really successful in todays rpg market you firstly need to develope a great rule system (like savage worlds did) and then invest in a bunch of excellent grafic artists. Its not that easy than 10y ago.
Personally I prefer Savage Worlds and dnd 4e because they are miniature centric. I dont think that I need another rpg system.
..nobody really NEEDS another RPG system.
If MJ12 wants to develope a rpg system then please only one which supports miniature gaming. It should be VERY easy to grasp but allow for tactical decisions and combat should be played on a grid or gridless.
Huh - sounds like Chainmail to me.....how well did that do?
There are rpg systems out there with high production and entertainment value. For example DnD 4e has extremely good support with beautiful coloured tactial maps coming with each single combat enounter and prepainted cheap plastic minis. Topping this with will be difficult. And a cheaper alternative without georgeous grafics and maps looks always a little bit...well cheap.
IMO to be really successful in todays rpg market you firstly need to develope a great rule system (like savage worlds did) and then invest in a bunch of excellent grafic artists. Its not that easy than 10y ago.
"Value" is in the eye of the beholder - in my view. There's scads of systems for the downloading out there - and a few have 'support' via the fan community as well as the ability to use things from other systems.
I'm cheap, mainly because I'm concerned about the economy and I have a family - making me buy minis to play it would not incline me to buy it. Virtually ANY RPG can use minis - very few (in fact I'm not aware of any) REQUIRE me to use them.
My take is that high production value does not always equate to high entertainment value
I doubt MJ12 has the pockets to "invest in a bunch of excellent grafic artists". I wonder if they can use a mediocre one....
I'd say that there are already too many RPG systems out there and trying to come up with a playable system and a cool concept is going to take time and energy. My thought is to grab a current syste m (there are many talked about above) and create your world in their playground.
Personally, I think MJ12 needs a starship miniature line (or coat tail with one already there), but that's just me!
-Bren
I'd say that there are already too many RPG systems out there and trying to come up with a playable system and a cool concept is going to take time and energy. My thought is to grab a current system (there are many talked about above) and create your world in their playground.
It doesn't have to be right away, or take up a lot of time. There are plenty of systems that can be adopted, as you say....
I'm currently looking at Savage Worlds.....
Personally, I think MJ12 needs a starship miniature line (or coat tail with one already there), but that's just me! -Bren
...by coat tail, I assume you mean pair up with a system that has minis. MJ12 just did something with the guy that did Star Fleet Battles. They have minis for those...
Having a distinct setting for Starmada can't hurt.....I kinda like the one for Wardogs.
Having a distinct setting for Starmada can't hurt.....I kinda like the one for Wardogs.
I know...I know... I'm woefully behind on this. 
Caught up in living proof of the chaos theory.
thedugan wrote:
Having a distinct setting for Starmada can't hurt.....I kinda like the one for Wardogs.I know...I know... I'm woefully behind on this.
Wasn't trying to kick the cage, I just like the setting as a starting point - once we get a team on it, it'll go.
Dude, mail me, let me know how things are going for you.
I'd do an RPG only if it made sense, if you had a compelling reason to do so. I can see two reasons.
First, there are few games out there that have integrated rulesets for characters (rpg), miniatures combat AND and tactical/campaign rules. Having ALL of these would enable players to dabble in the game-world at a number of levels, from microscopic to macro. A definite plus.
Second, an rpg makes sense if you have the possibility of cool characters. Players like having lots of powers, abilities, etc. Unfortunately, most of the established settings for m12 games feature realistic humans with few (if any) powers. (Which reminds me of a novel I just finished, Leviathan, by Scott Westerfeld. It's an alternative WWI fought with steampunk mecha and genetically-engineered beasts. Cool setting. Dull characters.)
Of course, you could always come up with a NEW setting, one with cool characters, the possibility of miniatures combat... the whole shebang.
Hmmm...a contest?
And finally, to throw out yet another possibility, you could licence your setting to an established RPG. I'm biased in favor of our own home-brew:
http://www.fastrpg.net/
Of course, you could always come up with a NEW setting, one with cool characters, the possibility of miniatures combat... the whole shebang.
This brings up something I've wondered about for a while...
Whether or not it leads to an RPG, would you like to see a fleshed-out "default" background for MJ12 games?
Yes!
I vote yes.
Having a robust "default" universe can have very positive repercussions--I'm thinking specifically of the Star Fleet Battles Universe and the way it's driven the development of SFB with minis, supplements, etc. There's a few RPG's or miniatures rules out there that don't have such a background, but only a few. (The excellent RISUS and FUDGE come to mind...)
by default background, how does that work with our various non-starmada games?
I can see a tie in with ares and For the Masses, Defiance and Starmada, but I'm having a hard time putting Powersled Circuit and Aces at Dawn "with" anything in particular?
But, I'm all for a default mj12 universe, even if it starts with just Starmada.
Don't Starmada, Defiance, Iron Stars, Wardogs, and to some degree For the Masses, already have default backgrounds? It seems like those were established with the provided force lists.
Aces at Dawn, Spitting Fire, and Grand Fleets also already have default backgrounds, that being history.
Powersled Circuit was never intended as anything more than a one-off boardgame, and so doesn't really need one.
It seems like most of the games that could potentially benefit from default backgrounds already have some sort of start on one.
Kevin
I completely agree, but I think the point is that we would mash the various backgrounds together somehow?
or was it to come up with a completely new background?
I need more info!
I'm open to suggestions (even if the suggestion is "Do nothing at all" ) but what I was thinking when I asked the question was whether there should be a single unifying background for all of the games, not a separate one for each.
Oddly enough, I got that
The question is, will this background incorporate all new material or will it use the existing materials and press them together like sheet of MDF?
One background to mash all the games MJ12 publishes together?
Eh....no, because (I think) they don't really all go together. Defiance has it's own, as do others (history as noted) - Iron Stars has it's own - I don't think the 'science' in Iron Stars and Starmada is really compatible enough to try to make it work. Iron Stars is almost Steampunk, and Starmada is more like Space Opera. I do think that you could easily meld Wardogs and Starmada together thematically with little trouble.
To answer Dan's question, yes - a Starmada background with more development would be great. It'd be a cool thing in my view if we were able to extend it so that Wardogs-style units were playable in it. I'd be giddy if we were able to include ARES-type characters, and it's only a step or two more to add in enough detail to make those into RPG-style characters.
I'm thinking RISUS or TWERPS, not GURPS or D20....
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