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mj12games.com/forum → Starmada → Armor Plating to expensive?
Hello,
I tried to design some ships today for my gaming group and wanted to use Armor Plating as one the race's main theme in addition to shields. The ships came out with very high Point costs, which is IMO not right as the armor does only negate damage rolls of one which have only occured rarely during our games.
Any advice or ideas on this topic? 8-)
I have seen it ruin some very good hits. Statistically speaking, it should really help a ship survive. I prefer Countermeasures because it reduces the chances of being hit in the first place -- but Armor Plating can save your bacon.
Armor Plating is amazing vs things like Continuing Damage, and it also essentially increases your hull by 50%. I have done ships with and without Armor Plating, I find the cost to be worth it.
Hello,
I tried to design some ships today for my gaming group and wanted to use Armor Plating as one the race's main theme in addition to shields. The ships came out with very high Point costs, which is IMO not right as the armor does only negate damage rolls of one which have only occured rarely during our games.
Any advice or ideas on this topic? 8-)
You find rolls of 1 rare in your games? You're not using the evil die roller we have been. 1's flow like water. I have seen armor stop a lot of hits because of it both for and against me. It doesn't seem to be pointed to high to me because it not only prevents hull damage but engine damage as well.
My 2 bits.
Erik
Mhm, ok.
I sense reluctance to agree (could be the bottle of wine I just drank at a holiday party -- my boss opened it but as he was draining the bottle in my glass for the fourth time, I realized no one else was having red wine!). If you do the math, regardless of the die results you are used to, 1/3 of the hull hits disappear and 1/2 of the engine hits are ignored. You can't really argue with that. Ships with Armor Plating and Countermeasures , although lacking the same PUNCH as ships without, will avoid a lot of damage. It might not be as sexy as having big guns but it can really get the job done.
There is also the fact that at medium or close range, Fire Control will ignore Counter Measures, whereas nothing really ignores Armor Plating <.<
There is also the fact that at medium or close range, Fire Control will ignore Counter Measures, whereas nothing really ignores Armor Plating <.<
Absolutely. (Although, Extra Hull Damage does still cause 1 Hull Damage on a roll of 1.)
Note, too, if your opponent is taking Fire Control, then they aren't having as much punch as they would without it. In my campaign with Blacklancer99, capital ships routinely have Countermeasures and Fire Control. It's F'ing essential! They also happen to have highly accurate weapons (3+ is standard). I think we fought one battle where my ships had countermeasures and most of his ships did NOT have Fire Control. The story of the battle revolved around his ships not getting as many hits as my ships.
Have you read the Starfire books by David Weber? Much of those books are the story of strategic tit-for-tat with technology. The same has happened with Blacklancer99 and myself. We started playing with Countermeasures vs. Armor Plating. Over time, most of our self-designed ships have Countermeasures and Fire Control. Some have Armor Plating as well. But you are giving up something when you take these defensive techs. My ships tend to have higher shield ratings than Blacklancer's ships in the same class because I prefer defense. Blacklancer's ships lack the higher shield ratings but their main guns tend to have two things mine don't: ammo, higher ROF.
Anyway. I think Armor Plating is balanced. It does its job.
Hello everyone,
All of my ships have Armor Plating. From the 17 hull BBs to my 1 and 2 hull small ships, they all have armor plating. I find it very useful and cost effective. It allows my ships to survive more damage. Also, having the engines very well protected is a bonus.
I never use counter measures or Firecontrol (which probably should be called Advanced Fire Control). I find these two to be Not worth their cost. But you will never see one of my ships without Armor plating... :geek:
I would like to see armor plating being able to protect the weapon systems or shields as an option instead of just engines.
I think we used to have that as previously, it would be interesting to see again (make 3 and 5 do nothing, only be allowed to have 1 of them per ship).
twould be interesting to try. I find Armor Plating to be largely ineffective, but this is likely due to my primary opponent's reliably excellent luck. Also, mathematically, Countermeasures is somewhat more effective than Armor Plating... Armor Plating negates a fixed 1/6 of all damage inflicted. Countermeasures changes a 5+ accuracy to a 6+, 4+ to 5+, and 3+ to 4+, negating 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 of hits depending on the accuracy of the weapon (disregarding range mods), any of which is superior to the effectiveness of Armor Plating. Perhaps this is balanced by the fact that Countermeasures can be directly countered by Fire Control, whereas Armor Plating doesn't really have a good counter (Extra Hull Damage notwithstanding).
Also, mathematically, Countermeasures is somewhat more effective than Armor Plating... Armor Plating negates a fixed 1/6 of all damage inflicted. Countermeasures changes a 5+ accuracy to a 6+, 4+ to 5+, and 3+ to 4+, negating 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 of hits depending on the accuracy of the weapon (disregarding range mods), any of which is superior to the effectiveness of Armor Plating.
Probably true, but not by much.
All weapons and special traits are point-costed based on their impact on a ship's survivability. Although Armor Plating negates 1/6 of damage rolls, it more importantly negates 1/3 of hull hits, thus increasing the ship's survivability by 50%. Perhaps this could be reduced to a multiplier of 1.4 or something due to the fact that Armor Plating does not reduce the number of weapons/shields hits accordingly, but generally speaking it's hull hits that count.
In the games that my friends and I play in south Florida, all weapons have 3+ to hit. Thus the Countermeasures will only negate 1/4 of the hits. We use a lot of Speed 15 drones (Strikers) in our game. When a cloud of these hit your ship, the countermeasures give No protection. Countermeasures also has no effect on the to-hit rolls of attacking fighters.
However, the Armor plating still protects your ship from 1/3 of the hull hits. This can make the difference between your ship vanishing in the fighter phase or surviving and being able to fire at least some weapons back.
This makes Armor plating Very valuable and is why everyone of my ships will Always have it. 8-)
Although Armor Plating negates 1/6 of damage rolls, it more importantly negates 1/3 of hull hits, thus increasing the ship's survivability by 50%.
Ah, true. And that's why y'all publish and we complain on the forums, rather than the other way around, lol.
None of my ships leave drydock without Armor Plating. Even the little snits, or strike boats, have it, and it has made their lives last a little longer at times much to the frustration to the enemy (also great for crew morale. :roll: ).
None of my ships leave drydock without Armor Plating. Even the little snits, or strike boats, have it, and it has made their lives last a little longer at times much to the frustration to the enemy (also great for crew morale. :roll: ).
Every time I nail one of Glen's snits, I do the exact amount of hull it has... except at least one of them is a 1.
Quite funny actually XD
I did try an experiment. I had designed some ships with various defenses but the firepower seemed weak. So I went the other extreme and designed a couple of ships with similar weapons and no defenses, they had a lot more weapons. The largest one died in one round. So much for all that firepower.
Glen Tzu saying derived from this experiment:
The longer you survive the more you can harass the enemy.
In game terms:
The longer you survive the longer you get to play.
8-)
I also like Armour plating - but as hinted at above, what your opponent uses makes it better or worse value than countermeasures etc. If there are lots of fighters and drones (I like seekers with a bit of punch) then armour plating beats countermeasures hands down. I also like it for carriers with few other weapons that hang at the back, and so are more likely to get hit by fighters/drones.
Hello everyone!
I am back in Jacksonville. My Nephew, Dad, and Gaming Glenn played several games of Starmada. My nephew (Psycho829) had made some excellent designs and I learned that my designs, needed to be made more lean. We had a great deal of fun. We kept the max range of any weapon at 18, and the max tech at zero. Most ships were speed four.
Nearly all of our strikers were speed 15 which made them very effective. I used "IonTorpedoStrikers: {1/3+/1/3/Piercing+1, Continuing Damage} They can be brutal. My nephew used something similiar. These will strip off weapons & shields from even a big ship when it is hit by a cloud of 'em.
Once again Armor Plating proved to be very much worth its cost. It helped protect from all weapons and will continue to be on everyone of my designs. When calling out damage rolls, it wounded something like this: "...you take 5 hull, 2 engines, three shields, 4 weapons, and 3 (harmless) dents on yur armor plating..." :geek:
Happy New Year everyone.
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