Topic: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

So, got my seven-year-old to play Starmada for the first time tonight (a "rules lite" version), with custom-built Lego ships no less... BIG hit. He wants to play again on the weekend and I'm all for that, as it'll give me a bit more practice before I roll this game out at the "boys" (old men by now, practically) upcoming game night.

But anyway, to my question--

Are there descriptions somewhere of the weapons in the Hammer and Claw book? I *love* some of the ship designs in there and would like to use them, but I have to admit to being puzzled at what some of the weapons are -- Skoonmaak, Denel, Krygkor, Eviscerator, Mauler, Little Death, Ravenous, Raven, etc. Am I missing something? I know it doesn't *really* matter, but are they described somewhere in the book that I'm just missing? If not, on the web somewhere?

(And I'd share pics of the Lego ships, but don't want to blast the board with big attachments since I'm a newcomer and don't know the rules of the road with that sort of thing yet.)

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

Hello, and welcome to the forum!
I think its great that your seven-year-old played Starmada and enjoyed it:  Awesome!!
If you are able to make forum-freindly pics of the Lego ships, I would love to see them.
I got my Dad and my nephew hooked on Starmada.  We have a lot of fun with it. 8-)

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

If you've got the Weapon Stats and and understand the attributes they use (penetrating, repeating, etc), that's all you need. Those names are just 'flavor' - they don't affect the way they are used.

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

Yeah, well aware that it doesn't actually matter regarding weapon names and descriptions and such -- it's just more fun (IMO) knowing what the authors were intending for some of the more exotic-sounding weapons, especially stuff with unusual traits like inverse-range yadda.

Sideline question: do most folks model anti-ship missiles and the like with seekers and strikers only, or also using the traditional weapons? My initial designs have loads of missiles in normal batteries, but I'm now realizing that means that can't be shot down, aren't affected by PDS, etc. Not a big deal, just wondering if there is a convention.

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

I vary my representation of missiles depending on what I'm trying to model / assumptions of the setting.  For example, in my Battlefleet Gothic conversion, I used strikers, but for my experiment in sort of doing Battletech-esque stuff, I used range 24 1/4+/1/1 Minimum Range Fire-Linked weapons for LRMs (and then piled 'em into large batteries).  I think I also used Dual Mode [range 9 1/4+/1/1 Area Effect, Variable RoF] | [range 9 3/4+/1/1 Anti-fighter, No Range Mods] weapons in my Dai-Ken Redux fleet to model different munitions from the Sakura LRM launchers, as well as building some short-range 'torpedo' weapons for my bomber flotillas.

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

Great that you got your little one in on the game.  My middle daughter was all into games until she turned 12.  Now, it's my 3 year old boy.  He helps move ships, and completely enjoys moving the asteroids.  True random movement!

For smaller missles, a la rocket size, I generally use the standard battery design rules.  For larger ordinance, such as torpedo to ICBM size, I use seekers.

It depends a lot on your given background or flavor of the universe in which you're playing.  For example, some Anime missiles fire in big packs much like a flight of seekers, but they're susceptible to intercept fire from point defense systems.  In other Anime shows, those very same missiles are simply too smart/small/agile to be shot down.  Thus, in Starmada, you could model them effectively either way.

I think, in many ways, we often tend to design weapons and/or ships to power game in the larger metagame, and forget the joys that come from using a set of limitations by common agreement to model a particular universe or story.  This is especially true when designing ships/weapons for open gaming or ships to go against official published designs. 

Conversions from one system to another are particularly prone to this.  We tend to design the LARGEST ships to fit our perceptions and desired weapons load out instead of finding the smallest and most efficient design that captures the flavor of the original design or miniature used.  This represents more of a focus on cause instead of effect.  The ORAT, DRAT, and CRAT all help address balance, but sometimes it seems like a ship with a 200 rating is measureabley more effective than two ships of 100 each.

One of the cool ways that I've seen to address this type of thing during an open design campaign is to use resource points of some sort, keep track of different marks of ships, and design and deploy upgraded/updated/refitted ships so that the players can respond to each other's different strategies, just like historically happens!

Incidently, I agree on the H&C flavor text.  I have just assumed that each fleet has a 'subsystem name' for any given type of beam weapon, much like we do in modern weaponry by assigning a system name.  Sidewinder, sparrow, RAM, TOW, Patriot and Javelin are all modern missile examples.

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

As the guy who wrote up the H&C setting, I'm thrilled to hear some folks like it  big_smile

Dan had "Janes" style weapons write ups I did for each system -- I doubt they're still in existence.

But from memory:

The Grumm weapons that allow you to keep rolling until you miss are "raking" or continuous energy beam weapons. The longer the Grumm can drag them across an enemy hull, the greater the potential damage.

There others were energy weapons designed to punch through shielding -- blast/warhead contained in a "sheath."

Little Death was a anti-fighter weapon -- lots of high RoF turrets with little chance of killing a ship.

The Boer missile weapons were swarmers.

The Denel was just a solid/quasi-generic laser.

The Euro ships Tacnet weapons just saturate their targets with lots of fire.

I'd have to go grab my copy to offer more. But if Dan has those old notes, they might help.

Matt

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

And yeah, the human weapons at least are often named after the fictional corp that designed them or are meant to follow the same approach as today's "sidewinder" or "stinger" etc.

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

themattcurtis wrote:

Dan had "Janes" style weapons write ups I did for each system -- I doubt they're still in existence.

Yup, I still have them. See attached.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

Very cool! And exactly what I was looking for, so thanks to those who dug these up.

If nothing else it's good inspiration for putting some of the finishing touches on my own setting, which involves a Tech -1 Earth fleet encountering some Tech +1 nasties in space. Plodding Earth ships bristle with armor, railguns and missiles while the quick alien ships pack shield-busting torpedoes and nasty beam weapons. Then there are the "Improved" versions of the new Earth ships off-the-line at Tech 0, which contain a mix of improved railgun weaponry and some beam weapons of their own... essentially an arms race.

Yeah, I dig this game. Thumbs way, way up.

Will post Lego ship picks soon, and hopefully get some designed uploaded as well.

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

Probably hijacking the thread, but hey -- it's my forum, right? smile

Speaking of Legos, I found these the other day and thought they were WICKED COOL!

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/480216/lego-miniatures

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Weapons in Hammer & Claw

No worries with hijacking the thread for Lego pics -- cool stuff for sure. And speaking of, here are a couple of pics of one of the ships in the aforementioned Starmada encounter between my son and myself. (For the record, once I knocked this ship's missile batteries offline my son retreated off the board.) Planning a much larger encounter this weekend with friends -- really looking forward to it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/887058/P1010750.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/887058/P1010752.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/887058/P1010753.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/887058/P1010793.JPG