• Registered: 2010-06-25
  • Posts: 4

Topic: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

I made my first ship today, and i thought i would post her here to see what you guys thought. since i would be playing ww1 most of the time i thought that i would start with a ship that i wont be using. Since HMS Vanguard (1946) is arguably my favorite battleship, i thought that i would start with her.

                                                                              HMS VANGUARD
325 points                                           Very Large
Armor         Hits       Speed      L.G.        A.A.
Belt: 15       (11)      6-6-6         x           73/105 (2nd number with 5.25" guns firing as AA)
Ends: 10      (12)      4-5-4         x            51/74
Deck: 12      (11)      2-3-2        x            29/42

                                                           Guns
(NOTE: HMS VANGUARD's turrets were strengthened to handle supercharge ammunition. even though they were never issued, i have included stats for them here anyway.)

15"/42      Range      ROF    Pen        Dmg      Hit On
              5/10/16      0      12/8/5      3           1
            6/12/18(sc)           13/9/6(sc)  (please note that the DMG is the same, as the shells were the same, just a larger powder charge which resulted in higher muzzle velocity and longer range)

5.25"/50   4/8/12    2       3/1/0        1          2-3

                     Main Guns
Turrets:        # of Guns        Arcs       
    A                     2              A,B,C,D
    B                     2              A,B,C,D
    X                     2              A,B,C,D
    Y                     2              A,B,C,D
   
                  Secondary Guns
Arc              # of Turrets    # of guns per turret     Total Guns for Arc
Port                4                         2                                     8
Starboard        4                         2                                     8

  • Registered: 2010-06-25
  • Posts: 4

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

looks like it formatted it automatically and now it is confusing to read. i apologise, i promise that is wasnt this garbled when i made the post.


~Joe

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Perhaps we need some sort of "Drake Notation" equivalent for GF?

Nice work, BTW. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-02-05
  • Posts: 16

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Ahhh... the 'battleship with her great-aunt's teeth!' Vanguard was a beauty; she might not have been the most powerful battleship, but she sure was one of the most attractive... and I generally go for more 'round, firm, fully-packed' designs like the South Dakota.

If H.M.'s Royal Navy had built the Vanguard when the Japanese fell out of the London Treaty talks, she would have made a potent addition to Allied operations in the Pacific.

  • Registered: 2010-04-01
  • Posts: 35

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

My info says that Vanguard had 6crh shells with an elevation of 30 degrees (reworked Mk1 mounts), giving a range of 32500 yards. These fired a 1938lb shell at a mv of 2458fps. This gives a range of 5/11/16 and a pen of 13/9/6.
I am slowly working on a database for ships from 1890 to 1945, but it takes quite a bit of work.

Cheers


Bruce

  • Registered: 2010-06-25
  • Posts: 4

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Bruce,
the info that i was using comes from navweaps.com, but i did cheat my way through high school math so i differ to anyone that is more fluent with it. the standard range and pen values i used were from the gundata list with a typo, the 16 should have been 14. i thought there was something odd with it as it was so outclassed by the japanese 14". being that as it is, would it then make the pen for the super charge ammunition 14/10/7, due to the higher muzzle velocity? I think that i failed to account for the smaller shell weight in the world war 1 (4crh) ammunition. thank you for catching that.

Carthaginian,
i have always been a fan of more "balanced" and "sleek" looking designs such as Vanguard, Hood, and Tirpitz, and the buisness like look of the new mexico class as completed with the citidel bridge. basically, i like ships with even turrets.

Cricket,
might i ask, what is "Drake Notation"?

~Joe

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

http://www.mj12games.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1302

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-04-01
  • Posts: 35

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Dobber wrote:

Bruce,
the info that i was using comes from navweaps.com, but i did cheat my way through high school math so i differ to anyone that is more fluent with it. the standard range and pen values i used were from the gundata list with a typo, the 16 should have been 14. i thought there was something odd with it as it was so outclassed by the japanese 14". being that as it is, would it then make the pen for the super charge ammunition 14/10/7, due to the higher muzzle velocity? I think that i failed to account for the smaller shell weight in the world war 1 (4crh) ammunition. thank you for catching that.

~Joe

The range 14 applies only to HMS Hood, which had 4crh shells with an elevation of 30 degrees, and the ships which were not refitted (6crh supercharge at 20 degrees - from 1938?). Vanguard and most of the refitted ships have the range 16 (6crh standard at 30 degrees). During the 1st world war, they all (except Hood) have a range of 12 (4crh at 20 degrees). If you want a hypothetical which has all the goodies (6crh supercharge at 30 degrees) then you will have a range of 18. In all cases you must recalculate the point value of the ship. Btw I calculate the Vanguard (range 16) at 387 points, using my workbook found here :http://www.mj12games.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2190

Cheers


Bruce

  • Registered: 2010-06-25
  • Posts: 4

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Bruce,
I downloaded your ship creation tool, but i will have to get microsoft excel to use it, and as i can only find it for over 200 dollars, i dont think that will happen any time soon. bummer, as it looks very cool. i tried using it in word, which i do have, but it wont work. if you would be so kind, i have some more questions. where did i go wrong exactly with the ship?

so, with the corrections kindly supplied by bruce and the Notation by cricket, the Vanguard would look like this;

(387) Vanguard class Battleship (HMS Vanguard)
Armor; Belt:15, Ends:10, Deck:12
Hits; (11),(12),(11)
OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
Speed; (6-6-6), (4-5-4), (2-3-2)
AA; (73/"105"), (51/"74"), (29/"42")  *please note that the 2nd # is with the 5.25" DP guns.
Weapons: 8x 15"/42 mk1 (4x2), 16x 5.25"/50 mk1 DP (8x2) 73x Bofors 40mm/60
Main
A & B Turrets (2x2 15"/42 mk1)
RNG 5/11/16, PEN 13/9/6, DMG 3 ROF +0 HitOn 1 ARCS: A,B,C,D
X & Y Turrets (2x215"/42)
RNG 5/11/16 PEN 13/9/6 DMG 3 ROF +0 HitOn 1 ARCS: C,D,E,F
Secondary
Port(4x2 5.25"/50 mk1 DP)
RNG 4/8/12 PEN 3/1/0 DMG 1 ROF +2 HitOn 2-3
Starboard(as port)

*please note that HMS Vanguard's turrets were fully modernized and reworked to appropriately handle 6chr supercharge ammunition. the stars above are for standard 6chr ammunition. if one wishes to use the supercharge ammunition the range is improved to  6/12/18 and the penetration is improved to 14/10/7. these improvements are not included in the points cost of the vessel because HMS Vanguard was never issued supercharge ammunition. In fact, after Vanguard was refitted into the Royal Yacht in 1947, she rarely carried any 15" ammunition and very little secondary ammunition, as she had become badly overloaded. X and Y turrets were also rendered inoperable, the latter to allow the use of a sunroom on the after deck. It was said that main gun shots at this time were intended as morale boosters to the crew rather than actual serious gunnery training. this info comes from navweaps.com)

  • Registered: 2010-04-01
  • Posts: 35

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

The statistics look fine to me, although I gave her a light gun rating of 12/8/5 (the 40mm). Conways gives her a speed of 31kts, and that is what I've used (although it makes no difference to the point value). Regarding the penetration of the supercharges, it seems the increased mv was not enough to raise the pv, so all you get is the increased range.
Strange to note, of the 3 WW2 vintage designs (KGV, Lion, Vanguard) she works out the cheapest by point value (by a considerable margin) With the hypothetical supercharges, her point value is 402.

Cheers


Bruce

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Carthaginian wrote:

Ahhh... the 'battleship with her great-aunt's teeth!' Vanguard was a beauty; she might not have been the most powerful battleship, but she sure was one of the most attractive... and I generally go for more 'round, firm, fully-packed' designs like the South Dakota.

Just because, here's what Vanguard looks like in Grand Admiral...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-12-20
  • Posts: 20

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Hi Daniel,

The link to the Vanguard graphic does not appear to work for the Grand Admiral stats. Please re-post it if you can - or, if not, please, please, please provide a list of the stats smile

Thank you,

Whiteylegs.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Made my first ship, HMS Vanguard

Can't find the original file, but I updated my post with a recreation.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website