• From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: RPG?

I wasn't necessarily thinking we should mash everything together -- rather, come up with a single background that can be plugged into each of our existing games and help drive the production of new ones.

Consider Games Workshop. Whatever you think of their games, their approach to rules writing, or their business plan, they have a very solid background that informs all of their products (well, two backgrounds that are very similar).

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2009-12-10
  • Posts: 30

Re: RPG?

Iron Stars would be a great option.


When it comes to game engines, could a leaf be taken from the SFU playbook? Prime Directive is done in GURPS, D20M and other systems - though I personally like to get the GURPS versions.


Even if only one system (GURPS, for example) was chosen, it would be an ironic echo of how Starmada serves as a common gaming template for Klingon Armada and SIS...

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: RPG?

cricket wrote:

I wasn't necessarily thinking we should mash everything together -- rather, come up with a single background that can be plugged into each of our existing games and help drive the production of new ones.

Eh, you could, but as I stated previously, I see some problems that would require 'retrofitting' some games...

cricket wrote:

Consider Games Workshop. Whatever you think of their games, their approach to rules writing, or their business plan, they have a very solid background that informs all of their products (well, two backgrounds that are very similar).

I've said almost the same thing in the past, I think...I know I was thinking it.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: RPG?

Nerroth wrote:

Iron Stars would be a great option.

Maybe, but I can't wrap my head around it. SPACE: 1889 didn't do that well. Traveler was around a LONG time, and D20 stuff made today can be made to work with stuff I played as a teen (ie a LONG time ago).....

The Warhammer setting has been around a long time.

Nerroth wrote:

When it comes to game engines, could a leaf be taken from the SFU playbook? Prime Directive is done in GURPS, D20M and other systems - though I personally like to get the GURPS versions.

Even if only one system (GURPS, for example) was chosen, it would be an ironic echo of how Starmada serves as a common gaming template for Klingon Armada and SIS...

I think GURPS is way too complicated for this audience - but I could be wrong. I'm not saying that this group isn't smart enough, but rather prefer more streamlined games. GURPS has always been interesting source material, but the system seems needlessly complicated to me - YMMV....

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: RPG?

cricket wrote:

I wasn't necessarily thinking we should mash everything together -- rather, come up with a single background that can be plugged into each of our existing games and help drive the production of new ones.

ooh that's very corporate of you, next thing you know we'll be talking about long term goals and enterprise vision.

cricket wrote:

Consider Games Workshop. Whatever you think of their games, their approach to rules writing, or their business plan, they have a very solid background that informs all of their products (well, two backgrounds that are very similar).

I see. I think it can help for sure, as long as it doesn't become the defacto and keep the new stuff from coming out of the player community. a fair share of what makes us cool is the open-ness of the various "systems".  I do realise tho, that some people want a pre-set background they can fit into rather than complete openness which they then have to form for themselves.

So whaddya have in mind?

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: RPG?

jimbeau wrote:

So whaddya have in mind?

Well, I think it would be good to have two backgrounds, one for fantasy and one for science fiction. (Iron Stars would remain a case unto itself, as would historical games.)

For the record, I'm not suggesting this would eliminate the "generic" nature of the games -- just provide a default background for those who want one.

As far as fantasy goes, I'm partial to what Jim and Noel did for FtM...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: RPG?

Now, I'm guuna have to dig that out....

  • Nick
  • Member
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  • Registered: 2010-04-18
  • Posts: 2

Re: RPG?

I agree with Falstaffe. Any MJ12 RGP would need a raison d'être in what is a very crowded field. Easy scalability could be the ticket. I used to play D&D with a DM who favored very open ended campaigns. As a result our party usually ended up conquering major junks of the setting. We had fun but our conquests often came down to a few d20 rolls. I imagine there must be rules in D&D for strategic warfare because there are byzantine rules for everything. No, everything:
<IMG src="http://www.headinjurytheater.com/dnd%20orgy%20rules%201.jpg">http://www.headinjurytheater.com/dnd%20orgy%20rules%201.jpg</IMG>
But a game where you could fluidly go from being an adventurer to playing a fun wargame or playing starmada and then back to adventuring would, I think, appeal to a lot of players. It would open up a lot of narrative possibilities for DM's too.

One other thing, has anybody here played Friday Night Firefight? I used to use it with Cyberpunk. Great system all around and I reckon it has a very MJ12 like feel to it.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: RPG?

YEAHHHHHhhh.....that explains why D&D sorta lost it's shine for me a LOOooonnnggg time ago...
smile

I doubt we'd need things detailed THAT much. My own preferences would be for something along the lines of TWERPS, Original D&D, TriStat, etc....something simple. GURPS, D&D as currently extant - eh, not so much.

  • Registered: 2010-06-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: RPG?

Dear Friends,

I would have to agree that there is quite a glut already of RPG systems, but if MJ 12 were to get into the RPG business I would encourage the production of sourcebooks for its own Starmada Settings - ie Imperial Starmada, Hammer and Claw, etc., for systems such as Gurps, MG Traveller or Savage Worlds.  My strong preference is for MGT and SW.  Or, the sourcebooks can be system-neutral.

Another direction would be to produce some kind of RPG system on the strategic level as support again for Starmada - what I mean is an RPG wherein the players are senior-level fleet officers who are commanding squadrons, task forces, fleets, etc.

Cheers,

Gary

  • Registered: 2010-07-05
  • Posts: 8

Re: RPG?

Friday Night Firefight was a pretty good system in the day (i.e. original black box edition), if a little brittle around the edges. Later versions tried to fix this in various and uniformly bad ways. However, the core premise of the original system was pretty good - basically each weapon did a certain amount of damage per unit of energy. Unfortunately it fell down at the mid-to-high range damages because the armour system scaled linearly and damage did not (physics is wonderful, no?).

I was going to say it's fixable with some minor changes, but really, looking back at what I did to fix it is really more down the lines of at least a lung or liver transplant (with kidney thrown in for good measure). The end result was a system that was as deadly as the original but without the narrow working range - once you started using 7.62mm NATO in the original you started to really break the system (namely you could fairly reliably bring down AV-4's), after my tweaks this was no longer possible (as should be the case - the armour on an AV-4 should be proof against small arms fire).

Later versions, just broke everything and are best stayed a long, long, long way away from.

  • Registered: 2009-01-18
  • Posts: 5

Re: RPG?

Instead of a true RPG, I would like to see more of a dungeon dive (kinda like a grown up Heroquest). You could have a handful of races and classes. The players should be able to level up and buy items. Maybe a D10 system. Print and play rooms, furniture, and minis. Rules for traps and monster design, etc... Just some thoughts...

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: RPG?

bkjohns96 wrote:

Instead of a true RPG, I would like to see more of a dungeon dive (kinda like a grown up Heroquest). You could have a handful of races and classes. The players should be able to level up and buy items. Maybe a D10 system. Print and play rooms, furniture, and minis. Rules for traps and monster design, etc... Just some thoughts...

Were an RPG to be done, staying far, far away from dungeon anything would be in the top ten advisable things to do. Not because it's a bad idea, but because there is a major glut of fantasy type RPGs out there already...and that abortion calling itself 4e is absolutely the wrong model to be following. Besides...any RPG to be done would be based on an existing MJXII product, such as Iron Stars or Defiance and such.

  • Registered: 2008-05-16
  • Posts: 76

Re: RPG?

Of all the RPG's out there, the current "rules lite" system with the most active support and grates flexibility looks like Savage Worlds.   (Disclaimer: Myself I prefer Hero and can't stand the "not quite finished unless you buy yet another book" GURPs  wink )    That all said, I do really think adopting something similar to SW would suit most mini gamers best, I was able to GM a full session within a day of picking up the rulebook and it flows well and things can easily be altered on the fly. 

SW is at its core a genre-less system easily adaptable to many settings, with a very large range of different setting already available from Weird WW3 to Pulp Space to Cthulhu Horror.  They are close to re-releasing a Savaged edition of Space 1889 as we speak.

For MJ12 I would recommend a Savaged source-book for its world/settings.   Many source-books/settings add unique rules/options as well.  The basic rules are short and cheap, the PDF is only $9.99.

I would like to see MJ12 bring something to the gaming world that I have not see successfully done before.  A way to merge the Role-playing with controlling ships on the gameboard in a SIMPLE manner without tons of rules.  I am primarily an RPG gamers that had almost given up on mini's because most rule systems were so complicated they just sucked the fun right out of the game.  I still read and loved my history books and scifi stories, but it came to mini gaming the drudgery of assembling and painting ships/armies just wasn't worth the effort because of the overly complicated completely un-fun rules out there.   Then, I discovered MJ12.  Starmada, Grand Fleets II and so on.  The rules are crunchy without sucking the fun out of things.   Simple yet detailed.  Or in other words FUN to play.

I for one would love to see a plot point campaign for Iron Stars or Starmada.  Especially if it contained rules for integrating role-playing directly with ship combat and maneuver.

  • Registered: 2010-07-05
  • Posts: 8

Re: RPG?

The basic utility of Friday Night Firefight aside, the basic Cyberpunk d10 system had a few flaws. Mostly the equal (slightly greater even) emphasis given to stats over skills. Supposedly moving to Fuzion as the underlying system fixed that, but I wasn't really convinced.

Another choice might be Silhouette from DP9 - I find it offers a pretty good solution to skills versus stats issues. It isn't terribly granular though as each increase in stat or skill is closer to an exponential increase rather than linear, this isn't necessarily a bad thing though. It does have the advantage that it maps directly to a miniatures game (with multiple scales) and already uses d6's everywhere.

Speaking of d6's, I was always very fond of WEG's d6 system. Dead simple, capable of a fair degree of subtlety, it's a basic dice pool mechanism. Admittedly it's skewed a bit towards slightly more heroic style games, however I seem to recall there being ways to tune it somewhat. WEG may or may not be dead though - it's been a while since I've heard anything about their fate.

Was there an RPG scale version from Renegade Legion? I seem to recall there being one(Legionaire?), but I could be mistaken (I only have Leviathan, Interceptor and Centurion).

Finally the other system that would probably be useful would be Tri-Stat. It's adaptable to a fairly wide range of game types from mundane to superheroic and is pretty simple. It's something of a testament to the systems popularity that the 3rd edition of BESM was published (by a White Wolf imprint) after GOO finally imploded.

What not to do! Stay away from level based systems - they work OK for fantasy, but tend to be lousy at more technological settings. Staty away from the overly complex as well (Hero, I'm looking at you!). Some sort of point buy or use based experience setup would be the go. Ideally some sort of effects based setup as they seem to be most flexible - Tri-Stat or Silhouette would be the best matches, with the other requiring a bit more work to be useful.

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: RPG?

Were I to do a sci-fic RPG, I'd end up using the SIEGE Engine mechanic...though they do have something similar called Star Siege which is a skill kit based setup. Typical Siege uses one type of die roll for resolutions and is rules light. I do agree, character level progress becomes problematical in sci-fi settings. However a skill set leveling system would be more appropriate, more accurately reflecting the characters improvement in the things that matter.