Topic: Langston Field

Just reread The Mote in God's Eye the other day, and thought it'd be fun to try to figure out how to make a workable a balanced Field in Starmada.

For people who aren't aware, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langston_Field

My first thought, have a ships Field rating be equal to the amount of energy it can store before it collapses, while being able to radiate energy at the end of each turn equal to damage control dice(being that it's based off of hull size, it depicts the size of the field pretty well, the larger the physical size of the field the more energy can be radiated into space).

For ex.

Hull size 9 ship with a 16 strength Langston Field would be able to "store" 16 points of damage before collapsing, while being able to radiate 3 points of energy per turn (End Phase). Once a ships Field collapses all the stored energy is then applied all at once.

You could even set it up with "criticals" same as on the hull track to represent burn throughs.

Being that the standard shield system AE negates damage, and this one would be absorbing it, I'm not quite sure how to work damage allocation. For example, would the Field negate any hits, or would it take it all. Ex a 2/2/2 weapon hits a ship equipped with a Langston Field with both dice, does it take the maximum of 8 damage? 

And once damage did get through on one of the "critical" boxes, how would a shield hit be resolved?

I could see this as being overly powerful, or horribly nerfed.

Any thoughts?

Re: Langston Field

My opinion Is that this would be costed similarly to a standard shield. A 25 point Langston Field would cost the same as a Level 5 Shield. A 16 point Langston Field would cost the same as a Level 4 Shield. A 9 point Langston Field would cost the same as a Level 3 Shield. A 4 point Langston Field would cost the same as a Level 2 Shield. A single point Langston Field would cost the same as a Level 1 Shield.

    All damage inflicted is absorbed by the Field until the Field is loaded.It would release Damage before it took Fire in the nextTurn.It should have a separate track to record this. Any remaining damage is resolved normally against the ship. It absorbs both Damage points from Double Damage Weapons, the extra Damage points from Extra Hull Damage Weapons, Increased Damage points, and Continuing Damage points (though these still have to be rolled for normally).

      Shield  Hits Would be resolved against a Shield Track just the same as a Standard Shield. When the Shield Track drops to a lower Level, resolve the difference in held Damage against the ship.

        To Illustrate, presume a ship with a 25 point Langston Field. When it has absorbed more than its capacity in Damage, the remaining Damage would be rolled normally. Any shield Damage rolled would be marked off on the Shield Track. If the last 5 was marked off the Shield Track, then 9 Damage (25 - 16) would also be rolled against the ship. If this should cause the last 4 to be marked off the Shield Track, then 7 Damage (16 - 9) would be rolled against the ship.

          This would be slightly less dangerous to its user than the Langston Field in the novel, but it would make sense in Starmada terms. It should be costed in DRAT in the same way that standard Shields are. It might take some adjustment of the point values at each Level to make this balanced against standard shields.

            I do not know whether you were intending to use this with standard Shields or whether you intended to make them mutually exclusive. Either could probably be made to work, though a ship with both would be somewhat complex. One would have to roll to see if a Hit Penetrated the Shields, and then let it be absorbed by the Field. Also, the total Level of Field plus Shield would need to be limited. I don't know how to figure DRAT for a Level higher than 8.

              As to whether this will be more, equally or less effective than standard Shields, my quess would be that it would depend on the size of the ship. It would seem to function a bit like a Regenerative Ablat. Is this a good idea? I don't know, try playing a few games with it and see if it is fun.

              Re: Langston Field

              Very nice, I like your ideas. I'm playing this weekend with a couple of friends, and one of them is a huge Motie fan so I'm sure he'll want to try it out. I'll play it against some normal shield ships to get a feel for it.

              Thanks for the advice!

              Re: Langston Field

              The thought occurred to me that this might be a useable way to represent the Black Globe in Traveller/Starmada AE Conversions. I spent a fair chunk of Memorial Day trying to convert a cruiser without doing too much violence to the Rules and Spirit of Starmada.

                While this ship does not usually have a Black Globe, I gave it one fit to its size (and it much needs it as this ship is somewhat weak in defenses for a cruiser in this background).

                  Zhodani Consulate Vrapkenchkinj Light Battlecruiser (704 CR). All systems are TL +4 (*.50 SU in the house rules that I am using for this conversion).This has been corrected to the Strategic version.

                    Hull (1, 3, 5); 9 8 7* 6 5  4* 3 2 1.

                      Engines (1, 2): 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1. ( I am using consumable fuel for the Engines. Think of it as being like Ammo for a Weapon Battery. Fire an Engine, mark off a point of fuel. While a careless player might run himself out of fuel, he could double an Engine's Thrust  just by paying 2 fuel and not (if your House Rules are generous) have to roll dice to see if he has destroyed an Engine by Overload).

                        Black Globe ( it takes damage on the Shield Track): 9 8 7* 6 5  4* 3 2 1. (The asterisks mark the points where Damage is considered to leak. When the Black Globe Track  absorbs Damage at 7 or 4, mark the Damage against the ship as well.)

                          Shields (3, 4): [2/1/2/III] [2/1/2/III] [2/1/2/III] [2/1/2/II] [2/1/2/II]  [1/1/1/II] [1/1/1/I] [1/1/1/I] [1/1/1/I].(I am using the Kinetic/Energy/Ballistic Shields from the VBAM/Starmada books. If rolling for Impact of a Kinetic Weapon against  the Shields, use the first figure in brackets. If rolling for Impact of an Energy Weapon against the Shields, use the second figure in brackets. If rolling for Impact of a Ballistic (or Guided, if you prefer the term) Weapon, use the third figure in brackets. The Roman Numerals at the end tell you what Level your Black Globe is at.)

                            Weapons (5, 6): 1: WY, 2: XY, 3: XZ, 4: XZ, 5: XZ, 6: Y.

                              Battery W: Spinal Meson Gun (Kinetic): 1-8/9-16/---, 4/3+/2/1, Slow-Firing; Carronade; Variable Damage.

                                [G]

                                  Battery X: Nuclear Missles (Ballistic): 1-6/7-12/13-18, 1/3+/2/3.

                                    Alternate Mode: Nuclear Missles (Ballistic): Size: 5, Speed: 10, Attack: 4+/5+/6+, Defense: 0.

                                      [ABCDEF] [ABCDEF] [ABCDEF] [ABCDEF] [ABCDEF] [ABCDEF]

                                        Ammo: 30 29 28 27 26  25 24 23 22 21  20 19 18 17 16  15 14 13 12 11  10 9 8 7 6  5 4 3 2 1.

                                          This is a slightly reworked Plasma S Torpedo  from Romulan Armada. I simply increased the Range; removed the Trait Slow-Firing; and made it an Ammunition- Limited Weapon. This should be close enough to work for the purpose. It may be used as a Direct-Fire Weapon or as a Drone Flight. You will probably need to read the Rules from Romulan Armada to properly use these.

                                            Battery Y: Lasers (Energy): 1-6/7-12/---, 1/4+/1/1, Carronade; Increased Hits.

                                              [GHJ] [GHI] [GIK] [JKL]

                                                Battery Z: Energy Blasters (Energy): 1-2/3-4/5-6, 1/2+/1/1, Increased Hits.

                                                  [GHI] [GHI] [JKL] [JKL]

                                                    These represent the Short-Range Fusion and Plasma Weapons in this background.

                                                      Before I proceed to the Special Equipment, I need to explain a few House Rules. The Black Globe has three settings. Fully on, it absorbs all damage until it is full. It radiates away no Damage, when it is fully on. No Engine Thrust may be used, when it  is fully on. No Weapons may be fired, nor may anything be launched, when the Black Globe is fully on. Half on (50% Blink Rate), it absorbs half of the Damage (rounded up) scored against the ship. It radiates away a amount of Damage dependent on the ship's Hull Size (square root of 9 is 3), halved (rounding up or, in this case, 2) at the end of the Turn. Only half (rounded up) of the ship's Engine Thrust may be used, when the Black Globe is half on. Weapons fire at half (rounded up) of their normal rate when a Black Globe is half on. Launches and recoveries take place at half the normal rate *rounded up) when the Black Globe is half on.Turned off, it absorbs no Damage and radiates it away at the maximum rate (3 in this instance). Thrust may be applied normally, when the Black Globe is off. Damage against the Black Globe proceeds as in the previous post.

                                                        Sandcasters are Expendable Directional Counter-Measures. A Directional Counter-Measure is one that gives a -1 to any To-Hit Roll made against its ship from a single bearing (as opposed to Conventional Counter-Measures that give this protection from any direction). A Directional Counter-Measure should cost about 1 % of the Hull Space Units. An Expendable Counter- Measure is one that lasts only a single Turn. Knowing the Space Unit cost of a Directional Counter-Measure, I can apply the procedure used for Ammunition-Limited Weapons to determine the cost in Space Units of a single Sandcaster. The only important thing to know about Sandcasters is that each one defends your ship (by reducing your enemy's chance To-Hit) for only a single Turn and only from fire from a single direction.

                                                          Hyperdrive Ratings are determined by the square root of the number of Hyperdrives (this ship would travel 3 Strategic Hexes in 1 Strategic Turn). Each Hyperdrive is fueled separately each Strategic Turn. That would limit this ship to, at most, 4 Strategic Turns of Hyperspace travel before it needed to re-fuel.

                                                            Special Equipment: Boarding Pods (1: 13 Capacity; Launch: 2, Recover: 2); Cargo (200); Critical Hit Save (4+); Damage Control (3 dice); Fuel (36 35 34 33 32  31 30 29 28 27  26 25 24 23 22  21 20 19 18 17  16 15 14 13 12  11 10 9 8 7  6 5 4 3 2  1); Hyperdrive (9: Hyper Range: 3); Marines (6); Sandcasters (10 9 8 7 6  5 4 3 2 1). This has 30  Space Units to use for auxilliary services.

                                                              VBAM Statistics;

                                                                Cost: 33, Maintenance: 14/3 ~ 5, Defensive Value: 9, Anti-Ship: 17, Anti-Fighter: 3, Command Rating: 6, Command Cost: 3, Basing: 1; Gunship; Hyperdrive.

                                                                  Since the Black Globe is a rare technical resource in this background (with a substantial Strategic Cost), most ships of this class do not carry one. This leaves an extra 207 Space Units for auxilliary systems and reduces the Combat Rating to 469 CR. The VBAM Cost would drop to 30, and the VBAM Defensive Value would drop to 7.

                                                                  Re: Langston Field

                                                                  I have spent enough time this weekend, subjecting ships with Black Globes to intense Weapon's Fire, to know that Black Globes, Langston Fields, and Space Patrol Battlescreens are all weaker defenses than the standard Starmada Shield. They start off strong, absorbing all damage like Ablat does. After a few turns, they are depleted and act thereafter like a Threshold Shield, trimming off a few points of Damage every Turn. Unlike the consistant performance of the standard Shield, they fail rapidly under heavy fire.

                                                                    Critical points are necessary to keep them from being invulnerable to fire that inflicts only a few Damage points per Turn.

                                                                      While I think that they are weaker than standard Shields, I have not been able to come up with a better way to cost them than to treat them as standard Shields for purposes of calculating Space Unit costs and Defensive Rating. I have found that it is an error to sum them with standard Shields for purposes of calculation. This makes the DRAT spuriously high. It is necessary to calculate Energy Absorbers and standard shields separately and add the results.

                                                                        Being something of an E.E. Smith fan, I would say that Space Patrol Battlescreens would be much like the Langston Field (not interferring with Thrust or Weapons Fire), but would radiate away Damage at the maximum rate (5) independent of the ship's  Hull size.

                                                                          Farscape Ablative screens would be rather like Black Globes that could be only Fully On or Fully Off.Larger ships in this background would have multiple Ablative screens. Only one of these could be active at any time.

                                                                            I am surprised that someone hasn't already done this for the Shadow ships in Babylon 5.

                                                                              Well, I think that this is about all that I have to say on this subject. We will have to wait until the Armada books get around to the Andromedans to find out how Starmada properly treats Damage Absorbers.

                                                                              Re: Langston Field

                                                                              I found these two ships in the Babylon 5 Wars Vault. While they were for the most part easy to convert, trying to accomodate an expanded field shunt showed me some flaws in the way that I was costing an absorbtion shield. Treating them as shields for the purpose of determining their Defensive Rating overcosts them. Instead, I shall treat them as a somewhat cheap form of Ablat. I still suspect that this gives an excessively high Defensive Rating, but I do not see how to arrive at a closer answer.

                                                                                  Second Empire of Man General class Battlecruiser (694 CR). All systems are TL 0 (*1 SU).

                                                                                    Hull (1, 3, 5): 14 13 12 11 10*  9 8 7 6 5*  4 3 2 1.

                                                                                      Engines (1, 2): 2 2 2 2 2  2 2 1 1 1  1 1 1 1.

                                                                                        Shields (3, 4): V V V IV IV  IV III III III II  II II I I.

                                                                                          Weapons (5, 6): 1: W, 2: X, 3: X, 4: Y, 5: Y, 6: Z.

                                                                                            Level V Langston Field (Radiate: 3): 25 24 23 22 21*  20 19 18 17 16*  15 14 13 12 11*  10 9 8 7 6*  5 4 3 2 1.

                                                                                              Battery W: Heavy Laser Cannon (Energy): 1-5/6-10/11-15, 3/5+/1/2, Slow-Firing; Variable Impact.

                                                                                                [AB]

                                                                                                  Battery X: Sustained Laser Cannon (Energy): 1-4/5-8/9-12, 1/5+/1/1, Slow-Firing; Variable Rate Of Fire; Repeating.

                                                                                                    [ABC] [ABD] [CEF] [DEF]

                                                                                                      Battery Y: Hydrogen Torpedo (Ballistic): 1-10/11-20/21-30, 1/4+/1/3, Anti-Fighter.

                                                                                                        [AC] [BD] [EF]

                                                                                                          Battery Z: Standard Particle Beams (Energy): 1-2/3-4/5-6, 3/2+/1/2, Anti-Fighter.

                                                                                                            [ABCDEF] [ABCDEF]

                                                                                                              Special Equipment: Alderson Engine; Cargo (130); Carrier (36 Capacity; Launch: 3, Recover: 2); CounterMeasures; Critical Hit Save (4+); Damage Control (3 dice); Fire Control; Marines (3). This has only 8 Space Units left.

                                                                                                                VBAM Statistics:

                                                                                                                  Cost: 16, Maintenance: 13/6 ~ 3, Defensive Value: 11, Anti-Ship: 14, Anti-Fighter: 2, Command Rating: 7, Command Cost: 3, Basing: 1; Alderson Engine.

                                                                                                                    Jones class Assault Shuttle (Breacher)

                                                                                                                      Size: 3, Speed: 8, Attack: 6+, Defense: 1; Capacity: 36.

                                                                                                                        My new method of calculating the Defensive Rating is to take the Hull size and add two-thirds of the Capacity of the Langston Field added to the Capacity added over the ten turns of a standard Starmada game by the value at which the field radiates. This is then used as the value of Hull for further calculation. In the present example: (14+ ((2/3)*(25+30))*12/(6-0)*1.2*1.5 = 182.4+7.6+3 = 193 DRAT. If I had used the Langston Field value as though it were a Shield value to calculate the Defensive Rating, It would have come out 313 DRAT.

                                                                                                                            Motie Patrol Corvette (469 CR). All systems are TL 0 (*1 SU).

                                                                                                                              Hull (1, 3, 5): 11 10 9 8* 7  6 5 4* 3 2  1.

                                                                                                                                Engines (1, 2); 2 2 2 2 2  2 1 1 1 1  1.

                                                                                                                                  Shields (3, 4): IV IV IV III III  III II II II I  I.

                                                                                                                                    Weapons (5, 6): 1: X, 2: Y, 3: Z, 4: ---, 5: ---, 6: ---.

                                                                                                                                      Expanded Level IV Langston Field (Radiate: 6): 16 15 14 13* 12  11 10 9* 8 7  6 5* 4 3 2  1.

                                                                                                                                        Battery X: Sustained Laser Cannon (Energy): 1-4/5-8/9-12, 1/5+/1/1, Slow-Firing; Variable Rate Of Fire; Repeating.

                                                                                                                                          [ABC]

                                                                                                                                            Battery Y: Micro-Missle Launcher (Ballistic): 1-4/5-8/9-12, 2/3+/1/1, Anti-Fighter; Variable Rate Of Fire.

                                                                                                                                              [ABD]

                                                                                                                                                Z: Standard Particle Beam (Energy): 1-2/3-4/5-6, 3/2+/1/2, Anti-Fighter.

                                                                                                                                                  [ABCDEF]

                                                                                                                                                    Special Equipment: Cargo (70); CounterMeasures; Critical Hit Save (4+); Damage Control (3 dice): Fire Control. This has 7 Space Units left.

                                                                                                                                                      VBAM Statistics:

                                                                                                                                                        Cost: 13, Maintenance: 13/6 ~ 3, Defensive Value: 11, Anti-Ship: 8, Anti-Fighter: 1, Command Rating: 6, Command Cost: 3.

                                                                                                                                                          I have treated Expanded Langston Field Generators as costing twice as much in Space Units per Level as their equivalent in standard Shield Levels. This is because doubling the rate at which they radiate doubles their effectiveness as compared to a simple Langston Field.

                                                                                                                                                          Re: Langston Field

                                                                                                                                                          Didn't the Indians play at Langston Field in the mid-50s? smile

                                                                                                                                                          Daniel Kast
                                                                                                                                                          Majestic Twelve Games
                                                                                                                                                          cricket@mj12games.com

                                                                                                                                                          Re: Langston Field

                                                                                                                                                          Ok, so I have been trying to think of a simple Black Globe/Energy Absorber shield solution for Starmada, and this is what I have come up with.
                                                                                                                                                          1.    Create a standard, all-aspect shield (rating 1-5). Shield Rating is reduced as normal by damage received in combat.
                                                                                                                                                          2.    Create a Capacitor Track with 5 boxes for each rating of the shield.
                                                                                                                                                          3.    Treat the shield as 2x current rating for purposes of IMP rolls (so a Shield with a rating a 1, becomes 2, 5 becomes 10, you get the idea). IMP rolls of 6 always penetrate, 1's are dropped and do not transfer any energy to the shield (grazes  wink )
                                                                                                                                                          4.    For “hits” that "Impact" against the black globe's rating, check off one box from the capacitor track for each damage die of the hit.
                                                                                                                                                          5.    When the capacitor track is filled and absorbs 1 more damage die the ship is destroyed (do not pass go, do not collect 200 space credits, do not roll damage, the ship is vaporized!)
                                                                                                                                                          6.    Each End Phase, the Black Globe radiates damage from the capacitor track. The damage radiated is equal to the current shield rating (after damage allocation).
                                                                                                                                                          7.    During Orders Phase, the shield can be shut down (or turned on if it was already off)to prevent it from absorbing any more damage on a given turn, but the ship is then exposed. A Field that is off can only radiate 1 point from its capacitors each turn.

                                                                                                                                                          Pros: This method ties everything to the Shield Rating and not the ship's size or any other factor. Bigger ships with beefier shields should be able to remain at full combat capability deeper into a fight due to the reduced likelihood of taking weapon or engine damage.

                                                                                                                                                          Cons: Weapons with high IMP and DMG rates can overwhelm the Shield and destroy the ship. Prolonged battles can be a problem as hits accumulate.

                                                                                                                                                          I know this ignores a lot of the peripheral effects and functions (especially in Traveler) of these shields, but I think it hits the main point that they are great at keeping a ship from being damaged, particularly in actions that are over quickly.
                                                                                                                                                          I didn't think it was necessary to load the game down with the myriad of ways that a system like this could affect things. This is particularly true if you are thinking of applying it to different settings where the particulars are a little different (I seem to remember Langston fields being much more “malleable” than black globes allowing small openings to shoot out of and for sensors rather than relying on flickering for example).

                                                                                                                                                          Ok, I have donned my fire retardant suit, so, what do people think?
                                                                                                                                                          Erik

                                                                                                                                                          Re: Langston Field

                                                                                                                                                          This seems as good a way as any to do it. The biggest problem with an absorption screen in Starmada is costing the Defensive Rating so that it balances in play with more conventionally shielded vessels. I do not know how to do this yet.

                                                                                                                                                          Re: Langston Field

                                                                                                                                                          JohnRobert wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          This seems as good a way as any to do it. The biggest problem with an absorption screen in Starmada is costing the Defensive Rating so that it balances in play with more conventionally shielded vessels. I do not know how to do this yet.

                                                                                                                                                          Agreed that there is a pointing problem (if mixing shield types like Traveller does), but I have no idea how to solve it. I'm sure one of the math wizards could break down how doubling the effective shield rate while such a field is on, and then accounting for the possibility of filling your capacitors and thereby destroying your ship would effect DRAT...It seems like plugging the effective shield rate into the DRAT formula and then modifying it for capacitor "strength" could work somehow, but I've never been good at word problems  sad
                                                                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                          Erik