Topic: Frame Cards

I've been mucking around with MSE(http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/) to try and create Defiance frame card templates. I plan on using them as quick reference cards during play.

I've got a bit of a defiance mse module working at the moment, few picy's (these print standard playing card size):
[attachment=2]infantryandweapon.png[/attachment]

[attachment=1]AFVandLV_APC.png[/attachment]

[attachment=0]mech.png[/attachment]

There's a separate combo weapon template as well but I haven't got around to inputting a combo weapon yet smile.

I'm trying to add some smarts to the templates so there are more drop down lists and less manual typing to try and save some double data entry but tutorials for mse are few and far between so it's slow going smile.

Re: Frame Cards

I've managed to get the set info to store the basic SR-TR/FR calculations so those parts can all be picked selected when you set up the set info tab

I don't want to go to far down turning this into an army creation tool so I wont be adding scripting to make actual frames inside the app, ie you'll need to manually type that data in. This should also mean not to much secret book stuff is given away smile.

I need to work on the card layout a little and build the export to html script so the full army list can be exported and printed (I hope) straight from mse once it's entered smile.

[attachment=0]MSE Army Overview.png[/attachment]

Re: Frame Cards

Slow going as I've been sick as well as trying to get this running. I've got a partial export script working...well I guess you could say it's fully working I just need to finish making it prettier with css and figure out how to group cards together in batches. Summary cover page:

[attachment=0]output.jpg[/attachment]

I do need to make a new base template and category for grenades/CDW's and Airstrikes. I'm probably talking to myself again smile

Re: Frame Cards

Export script is finished, so now once all the data is entered you can export a fairly standard looking army list in html format. I tested it in Firfox 3.6 and IE8 and both those versions seem to render it okay.

I tried to insert some mandated page breaks so as to minimize tables across pages break syndrome when you print, however I've only been partly successful and really need to add further sophistication into the export script, but it's likely I'll be the only one who uses it so it's  very low on my list to fix (ie very time consuming with minimal gains)

I've attached a zip file with a copy of the Imperial Army with Pdf of cards (sorry I haven't added images to every card yet), Army list in html format and some card backs, if anyone wants to have a look and if you spot any mistakes drop a reply smile.

I'm going to tidy up the code on the mse module make a minor alteration to font size and possibly font type (thoughts?), add a pick list for afv damage chart.

Once the above's done I'll upload the module to the mse site for checking and for anyone to download smile.

Re: Frame Cards

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I could actually turn this into a full army builder without to much trouble, the frame tables are probably the trickiest part but I think they could be done using lists.

I know an army builder for defiance is a no go area so I'll leave it out. I'm just working on the last few layout tweaks and trying to save even more manually typing. I figure the smallest amount of manual data entry the better, it may mean at certain points to get the full lists of options to appear I'll need to save and refresh but I've put reminders in the drop down lists.

Re: Frame Cards

Holy cow, nice work!

I can't sit down and digest this for about a month, but I will get to it. Impressive. Very impressive.

Re: Frame Cards

Thanks Sam feel free to provide any comments on anything so far.

I've hit what I think is my first limit with the mse tool, although it could be my lack of scripting skill with the tool smile. Anyways basically you'll have to manually adjust the PV value of any weapons in a turret. The tool is a little limited when it comes to dynamic list creation..ie I'm already bending it well beyond what it was designed for smile. I might yet come up with a workaround or gain a level in mse scripting and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Re: Frame Cards

This will be a little longer as I'm seeing if I can build more army buidler/frame builder stuff in (got an okay to give it a try). I've almost got basic SI infantry frames done. If I can get those to work I can't see why any of the others will not be achievable.

Combo weapons and Integral weapons might present some issue's, the later more than the former, but i'll see how I go.

I'm off to finish off the last little bit of the hth calculation function. Then I can do the last little function to calc the total frame pv for SI inf.

Re: Frame Cards

Getting through the infantry and just doing some error checking.

Need someone to check my math here:

On page 76 the Vobian Specter example I'm getting 37pv for cost not 36pv.
elite M4SAR+4 = 16PV
+5 Field save = 1.08x16 = 17.28 - does this defiantly roundup to 18?
1@9+ ref +2 = 3

pretty sure it's the field save step that's different, is that a positive roundup always on field saves?

thanks

Re: Frame Cards

All rounding is always up and it doesn't always happen at the end of the calculation, IIRC. Can't be bothered to check the math on the frames you mention right now, but there's been one or two cases of mispointed frames in the army lists. I do believe that the force creation tool, aside of the known errors/modifications listed in the Errata, should be assumed correct in case there is a discrepancy.

Re: Frame Cards

thanks tnjrp, least I know I've read and understood it right smile.

Re: Frame Cards

All infantry frames are now working, I divided the infantry up into 6 subtypes:

SI -Size 1/2 DC 1
PI - Size 1/2 DC 1
SI Size 3 DC 2
PI Size 3 DC 2
SI Size 3 DC 3
PI Size 3 DC 3

This does leave some blank options ie the way the cards setup you could set Size to 1 and DC to 3 and as there are no frames available for that combo no pick list is available. So it's handy to have the book around so you can follow the army builder and not pick a null combo. This also helps keep the pick lists down to a more manageable level as well.

The overall army setup page is also working so I'm approximately halfway done, I suspect vehicles will be quicker as I can re-use most if not all the infantry code simply by adding some new categories. I'll see if I can get all vehicles working by the end of the weekend smile

Re: Frame Cards

I'm finalizing up the vehicle building components, basically just the value calculation formula to do. Just a quick question

my interpretation is vehicle calculations work like this:
(basepv x dc) + (sdcpv x sdcpoints) = basic frame cost (bfc)
then
bfc x field cost = field cost addition(fca)

for a total frame cost of
bfc + fca = total

Its the field cost I really want checked/confirmed as the examples don't seem to have a complex multi dc/sdc example and including the sdc as part of the base cost adds to the field save pv total.

ie I've assumed it doesn't work like this:
basepv x dc = bfc
bfc x field cost = fca
(sdcpv*sdcpoints) + bfc + fca = total

although following the explicit build rules sdc does come at step 3 so the above could be right, although the examples over the page seem to indicate the first is correct.

I've never built an afv/apc with field saves....  8-)

edit---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry missed a Q
Rounding when does it occur?
If I had a complex apc vehicle with different front to side rear armour and field saves.

When does rounding occur?
Do I round up at each step
ie
calculate basepv and roundup
calculate field save cost and round up
add it all together.
or does rounding only occur at the end
calculate basepv
calculate base field save
total and then roundup

I relies this only makes a 1pv difference in a worst case but I'd like to get it right. For the moment I'm assumign the first method, I've also made the assumption that sdc is always purchased at the more expensive frame cost similar to hero costs for infantry.

edit---------------------------------------------------------------------

Assuming the above assumptions are correct vehicles are now done. I'll move along to weapon frames next

Re: Frame Cards

I assumed that SDC didn't contribute to the FS cost. I'm not sure about the rounding though; whatever you go with is probably OK. 1PV isn't going to make much difference to a 100+ PV vehicle.

Re: Frame Cards

Thanks Sam smile

I took a little break from scripting but got back into it, I have weapons and combo weapon sorted. Weapons I just have to write the PV totaling calculation. Then I'll move to combo weapons, bit of work there as I need to adjust the template so it can take 4 subframes then it's just duplicate all the rules for weapon on each subframe of a weapon combo.

Then air strikes, grenades and cdw's to go and the first rough draft should be done. (forgot also need to correct the export script a little)

Probably something like 10-25 hours of effort to go, depending on how dedicated I can be smile

Re: Frame Cards

If you get this finished you'll be the first. But most other attempts have been spreadsheets.

Re: Frame Cards

I've just discovered a way of resetting fields if an earlier field is played with rendering that choice "illegal".

example
Say I start to design a weapon and set the IR to 4 then I decide I want it to be phase (an earlier choice), changing the earlier choice to phase will reset the IR back to default.

Now the question becomes do I do this kind of check at the army SR/TR level as well.
example
I start of with yes I can build phase weapons and design up 4 unique frames, later I decide I don't want phase weapons and adjust that field back to none. I could make it so those 4 designed weapons will also part rest, I say part as what it'd do is just turn them into identical stat'd frames but no longer phase, the phase box would be reset to "no" and the corresponding PV would then update to reflect the non phase pv cost.

Problem with the above is if you adjusted something by mistake you'd need to go back and reedit the affected frames. the risk of not doing it is you forget about a frame and end up with an illegal army. At the moment I'm leaning towards were I can do the reversion as hopefully if you did make a mistake you could just reload your army file.

The other problem with the above is it's a bundle more script code meaning more time to finish, however so this doesn't turn into vapourware I can upload a alpha version (after I get base weapons working) for people (okay Sam smile ) to play with while I continue to work on changes. The risk with that will be an army designed on the alpha version probably wont load properly on later versions and naturally there will be a pile of bugs and stuff not working 100% smile

thoughts?

Re: Frame Cards

Base weapons are done at last hopefully...

Onto the redesign of the combo weapon layout and get the code fully working.

Re: Frame Cards

I have to say this is quite exciting.  If you need any help with testing for errors I'd be happy to help out.

-Tim

Re: Frame Cards

I'm with Tim on this...super excited!
I can't code (well), but I do QA testing at work.  If you need a tester let me know!

Re: Frame Cards

Thanks both, hopefully I'll have some sort of test version ready soon.

It was slow going this weekend I managed to get about half way through the Combo weapons (ie 2 out of 4 subframes now work). I'll keep working on the builder during the week and on the weekend smile.

Re: Frame Cards

Pretty cool work here - if I had time, I'd design the card backgrounds for you to keep it looking perfectly in sync with the book layouts, but still - nice job!