• Registered: 2011-08-18
  • Posts: 9

Topic: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

Hello all,

I'm a relative newcomer to Starmada, but I'm enjoying it a lot and trying to introduce it to as many friends as I can.  I've found a couple random terrain table around the web (in campaigns from Harrigan and the Wandering Gamist), and I'm working to expand them from six possible outcomes to more than 36.  I have a playtest draft that I'd appreciate feedback on, if you've the time. 

    [*]Results are determined by rolling 2d6 the same way you roll 2d10 to yield a percentile.
    [*]Some combinations are clunky, but I've limited myself to random numbers a d6 can produce
1.    Open Space… mostly
1.1.    Black Hole
1.2.    Open Space
1.3.    Open Space
1.4.    Open Space
1.5.    Minefields, 1d3+1 of Size 1d3+1 each
1.6.    Minefields, 1d6 of Size 1d3 each

2.    Asteroid Field
2.1.    1d6+1 fields, Size 1
2.2.    3d3 fields, Size 1
2.3.    1d6+1 fields, Size 1d2 each
2.4.    3d3 fields, Size 1d2 each
2.5.    1d3+1 fields, Size 1d2+1 each
2.6.    1d3+1 fields, Size 1d3+1 each

3.    Asteroids
3.1.    2d3, random
3.2.    2d6, random
3.3.    1d3/player, players' choice
3.4.    1d6/player, players' choice
3.5.    1d3+1, random
        +1d3 asteroid fields (Size 1), random
3.6.    1d6+1, random
        +1d3 asteroid fields (Size 1), random
 
4.    Planet
4.1.    Small Planet (Size 1)
4.2.    Small Planet (Size 1)
        +1 moon (asteroid) 1d3 hexes away
4.3.    Small Planet (Size 1)
        +1d3 moons (asteroids) 1d6 hexes away each
4.4.    Medium Planet (Size 2)
4.5.    Medium Planet (Size 2)
        +1d3 moons (asteroids) 1d6 hexes away each
4.6.    Large Planet
4.6.1.    Size 3
4.6.2.    Size 3
4.6.3.    Size 3
4.6.4.    Size 4
4.6.5.    Size 5

5.    Nebula
5.1.    Nebula patches—3d3 fields, Size 1d2 each
5.2.    Nebula patches—1d3+1 fields, Size 1d2+1 each
5.3.    Nebula patches—1d3+1 fields, Size 1d3+1 each
5.4.    Nebula edge–4d6 down the x-axis
5.5.    Nebula, full board
5.6.    Nebula, full board

6.    Dust Cloud
6.1.    Dust Cloud patches—3d3 fields, Size 1d2 each
6.2.    Dust Cloud patches—1d3+1 fields, Size 1d2+1 each
6.3.    Dust Cloud patches—1d3+1 fields, Size 1d3+1 each
6.4.    Dust Cloud edge–4d6 hexes down the x-axis
6.5.    Dust Cloud, full board
6.6.    Dust Cloud, full board

Comments and criticisms welcome.   smile

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

Welcome, and thanks for sharing your ideas!

My only quibble (I like the concept) is the relative paucity of open space -- there's only a 1-in-12 chance of fighting without any terrain at all. While I understand the point of a terrain table is to, you know, HAVE TERRAIN, I would still think open space should result at least 40-50% of the time. But that's just me...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2011-08-18
  • Posts: 9

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

cricket wrote:

Welcome, and thanks for sharing your ideas!

My only quibble (I like the concept) is the relative paucity of open space -- there's only a 1-in-12 chance of fighting without any terrain at all. While I understand the point of a terrain table is to, you know, HAVE TERRAIN, I would still think open space should result at least 40-50% of the time. But that's just me...

Thanks for the welcome, the feedback, and--perhaps more importantly--the game.

Feedback like this is exactly why I wanted to post.  smile  All the games I've played thus far (and that's no more than 10) have included terrain, but it sounds like that might not be the norm.  I've always included terrain in the hopes it will result in different tactics and thus different games.  I hoped it might also prevent  ship design stagnation.  If it's not terribly necessary in the eyes of more experienced players, I'll have to try some battles without any, and adjust this table accordingly. 

How often do you use terrain?  Do you find enough game variety without terrain?  Was the game designed principally for open space play?

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

Very interesting, I've always wanted to think about such a thing.
Usually, I play with terrains, mainly because my opponent likes that. And it brings interesting tactics over the board.
It reminds me game I played many years ago (the High Crusade, hilarious idea) where, although fleets were able to move across space between stellar system, battles were only made around planets. Mainly because space is very big and the chance encounter has, well, astronomical chances... and also because planets were the goals. You just don't fight in open space, you fight near strategic objectives.
Of course, on a table, open space could be near a planet, but not near enough to have on it.

My 2 eurocents.

Marc

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

bzarhands wrote:

How often do you use terrain?  Do you find enough game variety without terrain?  Was the game designed principally for open space play?

Personally, I don't like to play with terrain, aside from maybe a few asteroids now and then.

Others may have different perspectives, tho.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

cricket wrote:
bzarhands wrote:

How often do you use terrain?  Do you find enough game variety without terrain?  Was the game designed principally for open space play?

Personally, I don't like to play with terrain, aside from maybe a few asteroids now and then.

Others may have different perspectives, tho.

I'm actually right there with Marc...space is big and empty, and that's a really good reason why fleets don't meet, especially if one side wants to avoid the other. Near a planet, asteroids, or perhaps a place of special resources, there might be something I think is worth defending, which means if you want to get it we're going to rumble. Besides, count me as one of those people that just think terrain adds a lot of tactical "flavor" to a scenario/battle.  smile
Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2010-11-15
  • Posts: 298

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

I like to play with some terrain most of the time and open space occasionally.  IMHO the problem with always playing in open terrain is it really promotes (for some players) long range guns and not moving much.  It can be tough to run the gauntlet against that unless you specifically build to beat it (such as making better long range guns than they have). 

If you know that you might have to deal with space terrain, people tend to go for a more rounded ship design.

To the OP I like your idea of nebula and dust patches.  We're going to be restarting a campaign soon and I think I'll sub out the full on nebula and dust with the patches.  Makes it more interesting.

-Tim

  • Registered: 2010-06-29
  • Posts: 82

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

Welcome and a good workable idea,

Personally I think the impact on of terrain is universe specific. Some settings such as Honor Harrington universe have very long ranges and the terrain plays little part in the tactical battles while others such as Startrek seem to have quite a lot of terrain about. 

You might 'improve' your table to accommodate different perceptions of whether terrain is common or not, by adding another d6 roll beforehand. 1-3 roll on terrain table 4-6 it is open space. That would keep Cricket happy (always a good thing smile ) this basic roll can be altered to match others predilections/universes, in the extremes to 1 roll on the terrain table 2-6 it is open space or 1-5 roll on the terrain table and 6 its open space.

Just a thought.

  • Registered: 2011-08-18
  • Posts: 9

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

Thanks, all, for your input.

I have to admit that I don't have a lot of hard wargaming experience; I come to Starmada via a few miniature games that encourages a lot of terrain, so when it came time to decide the board, I went terrain-heavy.  I've realized two things so far:

    [*]Line of sight can sometimes be annoying to calculate, and playing by the rules as written (as we do), even a small number of asteroids can deny a lot of visibility.  This places a further emphasis on positioning, which I enjoy.
    [*]Longer-range weapons are denied a lot of their utility by intervening terrain; not really a surprise, I suppose, but I find this aspect less enjoyable from a balance stand point.  That's one reason that got me thinking about how to create random terrain and restore balance to our forces.

I think we all agree that space is empty, but fluff-wise, I think arguments can be made for fighting around terrain or out in the void, depending upon what players want.  I think it's a testament to Starmada that it works anywhere along the terrain spectrum, further emphasizing its modular/play-how-you-want nature.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

bzarhands wrote:

I think we all agree that space is empty, but fluff-wise, I think arguments can be made for fighting around terrain or out in the void, depending upon what players want.  I think it's a testament to Starmada that it works anywhere along the terrain spectrum, further emphasizing its modular/play-how-you-want nature.

Indeed.

My initial response should not be taken as a "this is wrong" criticism -- just an "if it were me" suggestion. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2011-08-18
  • Posts: 9

Re: A draft of random terrain rules/My Introduction

mikeaxe wrote:

Welcome and a good workable idea,
You might 'improve' your table to accommodate different perceptions of whether terrain is common or not, by adding another d6 roll beforehand. 1-3 roll on terrain table 4-6 it is open space. That would keep Cricket happy (always a good thing smile ) this basic roll can be altered to match others predilections/universes, in the extremes to 1 roll on the terrain table 2-6 it is open space or 1-5 roll on the terrain table and 6 its open space.

smile   This is exactly what I thought when I saw cricket's 40%-50% guideline for open space.