• Registered: 2010-12-20
  • Posts: 20

Topic: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

Hi Everyone,

I am a great fan of WWII naval gaming in the Atlantic, as well as great fans of the Grand Admiral (GA) system that allows for a fast-play game, even with a big fleet and/or beginners. big_smile

My solution has been to attempt to convert ship data for WWII vessels for use with GA. I am very happy to share the results so far with anyone interested (attached for comment). I think all the details for the main batteries of each ship class are complete, andthough the secondary and tertiary battery ratings still need to be worked through.

Because the gun penetration and range tables in GA remain a bit of a mystery to us in terms of how to calculate penetration etc, we have gone for a "nearest match" approach to existing guns in Orange and Castles of Steel; but each gun has a unique range based on real life performance.

I am hoping that Dan will post a set of gun tables on this forum for all naval artillery used from 1914-1945 - or at least for the Royal Navy and the Kreigsmarine weaponry [for hoping, read pleading]  wink .  This would greatly assist in all manner of ship class conversions; not just for WWII.

We are currently using 1:4800 or 1:2400 scale miniatures (depending on the size and nature of the battle) on a 6' x 4' table, with ground scale (sea scale?) set at 1" = 1,000 yards. Despite theoretical maxima, we restrict the range of even the farthest firing gun to an effective range of 27,000 yards. This is because the longest range hit scored on a warship by another warship was at roughly 26,465 yards. This keeps ranges more realistic, while also ensuring that the game may be played on our existing table. When a ship is crippled, we place a 'burning fire and smoke' marker on the ship's stand to signify this at a glance.

Please let me know what you think, if anyone else is interested in refighting WWII battles using this system,  and please share your ideas on how to game this system with miniatures...

Thanks,

Andrew from Oz.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

Whiteylegs wrote:

I am hoping that Dan will post a set of gun tables on this forum for all naval artillery used from 1914-1945 - or at least for the Royal Navy and the Kreigsmarine weaponry [for hoping, read pleading]  wink

Working on it...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-12-20
  • Posts: 20

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

Hi Dan,

I was wondering if there is any update for a WWII in the Atlantic module for Grand Admiral? Is there any news on a gunnery and penetration table at least? then we could do the rest ourselves...

Thanks for a great game system.

Whiteylegs.

  • Registered: 2006-08-07
  • Posts: 161

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

The gunnery and penetration tables are in the supplimentary materials already available on the game´s website.

  • Registered: 2009-09-15
  • Posts: 14

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

RiflemanIII wrote:

The gunnery and penetration tables are in the supplementary materials already available on the game´s website.

Where would that be?  I can't find a website (or part of this one) that has that information.

LT

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

I believe Rifleman was referring to Grand Fleets -- GA does not have a comparable set of tables.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

If there were to be a GF and/or GA supplement for WWII in the North Atlantic, what ships would you consider indispensable?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-11-15
  • Posts: 298

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

The entire Kriegsmarine for starters  wink  as well as all the Royal Navy ships that battled them.  I think the battles that should be covered:

-Bismarck series
-River Plate
-Everything to do with the "Ugly Sisters"
-The small actions during the invasion of Norway

BTW, I've got you started on the Kriegsmarine in this thread:

http://www.mj12games.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2752

-Tim

  • Registered: 2009-09-15
  • Posts: 14

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

cricket wrote:

I believe Rifleman was referring to Grand Fleets -- GA does not have a comparable set of tables.

The only files I can find for Grand Fleets are the demo game and the markers and templates file. Where am I supposed to be looking?

LT

  • Registered: 2009-09-15
  • Posts: 14

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

:oops: Ne-e-e-ever mi-i-i-ind. Apparently I needed to down the stuff.zip files four times before my unzipping software would give me all the files it contained. Once again, free software proves to be worth every penny I paid for it.

LT

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

So, for the Germans, we'd have:

BB Bismarck, Tirpitz
BB/BC Scharnhorst, Gneisenau
CA Deutschland, Admiral Scheer, Admiral Graf Spee
CA Admiral Hipper, Blucher
CA Prinz Eugen, Seydlitz, Lutzow (Hipper-class series 2)
CL Emden
CL Konigsberg, Karlsruhe, Koln (K-class)
CL Leipzig, Nurnberg

Total of 18 capital ships, plus destroyers.

Anything I'm missing?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

And for the British:

BB King George V, Prince of Wales, Ramillies, Revenge, Rodney, Nelson, Resolution, Valiant, Warspite
BC Hood, Repulse, Renown
CV Ark Royal, Furious, Glorious
CA Suffolk, Norfolk, Dorsetshire, London, Exeter, Berwick, Devonshire, York
CL Kenya, Galatea, Aurora, Neptune, Hermione, Edinburgh, Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield, Cairo, Effingham, Glasgow, Southampton, Arethusa, Coventry, Curlew, Enterprise, Penelope, Carlisle, Curacoa, Calcutta, Achilles, Ajax

46 ships, plus destroyers.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-11-15
  • Posts: 298

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

German list looks good. 

I am no RN expert but I see many familiar names in that list.  Interesting that you have carriers in the mix!

-Tim

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

What about the (CL) Leander class?
Leander, Achilles*, Ajax*, Neptune and Orion.

Can not do Battle of the River Plate without these "*".

Paul

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

Edited to include Achilles and Ajax.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-12-20
  • Posts: 20

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

Hi Everyone,

I have attached a first go at ship data cards for the Kriegsmarine. We have been playing with these in our group, but we do not think the gun tables are quite right.  We have worked on an assumption of a maximum gunnery range of about 28,000 yards given that this range exceeds the longest gunnery hit achieved in WW2.

Thought someone might find them useful as a starting point big_smile  Please let me know what you think.

Classes covered are:
Bismarck
Scharnhorst
Deutschland
Admiral Hipper/Prinz Eugen

I will post the Royal Navy ships we have worked out to fight against them soon.

Regards,
Andrew

  • Registered: 2010-12-20
  • Posts: 20

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

Hi All,

Please find attached a copy of the ship data files we have been using for our Royal Navy BB and BC.

Once again, the gunnery figures seem a bit rubbery, but I thought these might form a useful starting point for other players and a discussion point. As with the German warship data posted earlier, all comments and criticism gratefully received in improving these things.

The classes covered are:
BB KGV, Nelson, Ramilles, Queen Elizabeth
BC Hood, Repulse/Renown

This lets us fight most engagements. I have taken out the graphics in this file to keep the size down. I will post the files for the RN cruisers soon.

Regards,

Andrew.

  • Registered: 2010-12-20
  • Posts: 20

Re: Grand Admiral - WWII in the Atlantic

Hi All,

Attached is the last of my draft Grand Admiral Royal Navy ship data files for CA & CL in WWII.

All comments and suggestions for improvement welcome. I hope you all enjoy them.
The file includes:
CA County Class
CA York Class
CL Town Class
CL Leander Class
CL Arethusa Class
CL Dido Class

Regards,

Whiteylegs