Topic: Grand Fleets III

Since the Starmada announcement in CL #44 (http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Starmada%20Ships/CL44-Starmada.pdf) kinda let the cat out of the bag, thought I'd share this with you.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

Wow, my paypal account is going to be very busy soon!

Those are really nice looking cards Dan.  Nothing like solid play aids to look at while you are not playing to make you want to get back to playing!

I can't help but ask - I see there is an anti-air line on there - any chance we'll get to use those against live targets?

-Tim

Re: Grand Fleets III

The anti-air battery will indeed have a purpose. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

Great news!

I will definitely buy the PDF rules for this.  Any chance you'll be selling the ship cards printed on card stock?  While I don't mind  printing off rules in B&W on regular paper, it would be a shame not to get to play with those beautiful cards on a decent material.... and getting them printed off at kinkos (instead of at work/home for the B&W) would be brutally expensive.

-Tim

Re: Grand Fleets III

I actually think the GF2 system is better.

Cheers


Bruce

Re: Grand Fleets III

brucesim2003 wrote:

I actually think the GF2 system is better.
Cheers
Bruce

I guess it just depends on what your definition of "better" is.
Most hex-based systems will be fairly similar with respect to movement.
I was wanting a system that had a faster resolution of gunfire, though, so larger games could be played.
I think so far we've done a pretty good job of approximating the results of GF 1 or GF 2, with one die roll.
In Ulsan, for example, we've been able to play to a conclusion in 20 to 30 minutes. In either of the current versions it would normally take an hour or more to reach a similar conclusion.
I don't know that I'd say any of the versions of GF are better than any of the others.
I do know that GF 3 is a lot faster playing, with a lot less dice rolling.
Kevin

Re: Grand Fleets III

This looks like welcome news.

I have been hoping for a fastplay version of WWII naval combat for some time - hence the attempts at converting files for Grand Admiral and Starmarda. This could be just the ticket.

My only question is this: when do you think we GF III might become available?

Thanks smile

Ando.

Re: Grand Fleets III

Not just WWII... smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

Nice...

Pre-dreads, dreads, WWII all good smile

Sooooo... when may we expect these  :?:  :?:

Thanks,

ANdo.

Re: Grand Fleets III

Whiteylegs wrote:

Sooooo... when may we expect these

Look for news after the first of the year.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

These are looking pretty awesome.  Any hints about how aircraft will work  8-)

Re: Grand Fleets III

Marauder wrote:

Any hints about how aircraft will work  8-)

Abstractly...  :mrgreen:

They will not be maneuvered on the table, and will be used more as "expendable resources."
The basics (currently) are:

1) The phasing player allocates bomber attacks.
2) The defending player allocates intercepting fighters.
3) Surviving bombers are placed on the table next to the ship they're going to attack.
4) Ships defend with AA.
5) Surviving bombers drop their payload (bombs or torpedoes).
6) Surviving bombers are then removed and return "home."

Kevin

Re: Grand Fleets III

Abstract is all good with me.  You will still be able to use aircraft miniatures to track them - but you won't have to deal with the minutia of moving them around on the table.

So just some more questions:
1) Is there any difference between aircraft between the nations - do they have stats or all they all just generic?
2) Are there limits as to how many bombers can be allocated to a single enemy craft?
3) Can ships in close proximity to another craft assist it with AA fire?
4) Are there both land based aircraft plus carrier based?   Are they treated differently?

Oh, and just because I haven't asked enough - are there subs in the game?

-Tim

Re: Grand Fleets III

I'll see if I can answer the following, but take my answers with a grain of salt.
Unless we're talking racing games...  wink,  Dan is the final authority on content.

Marauder wrote:

1) Is there any difference between aircraft between the nations - do they have stats or all they all just generic?

I believe that aircraft are going to be abstracted enough that there probably won't be nationality differences. We might be able to tweak the dice totals of different aircraft types slightly, but probably not.

Marauder wrote:

2) Are there limits as to how many bombers can be allocated to a single enemy craft?

Yep, and the quantity will be based on target ship size.

Marauder wrote:

3) Can ships in close proximity to another craft assist it with AA fire?

Yep, and the effectiveness of that support will reduce as the distance between the target and supporting ships increase.

Marauder wrote:

4) Are there both land based aircraft plus carrier based?   Are they treated differently?

Probably not. Again the level of abstraction will be great enough that there wouldn't be much distinction, if any, between land and carrier based aircraft.

Marauder wrote:

Oh, and just because I haven't asked enough - are there subs in the game?

That's currently the plan.
But again like aircraft they'll be abstracted and handled more like "expendable resources."
Kevin

Re: Grand Fleets III

underling wrote:

1) The phasing player allocates bomber attacks.
2) The defending player allocates intercepting fighters.
3) Surviving bombers are placed on the table next to the ship they're going to attack.
4) Ships defend with AA.
5) Surviving bombers drop their payload (bombs or torpedoes).
6) Surviving bombers are then removed and return "home."

What Kevin said, with one clarification: bombers return "home", in that they are removed from the game. However, they are NOT rearmed -- aircraft (both fighters and bombers) are considered one-use resources.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

Marauder wrote:

Are there both land based aircraft plus carrier based?   Are they treated differently?

This is one area that may (or may not) cause a bit of grumbling. But I've concluded that there's just no point in including carriers per se...

At the distances involved, they would never be on the same table as enemy ships -- and carrier-vs-carrier actions like Midway would be seriously boring, being nothing more than die-rolling exercises. Further, at the time scale involved, there's no opportunity to reasonably recover, rearm, and launch a second strike.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

Battle off Samar (Taffy 3)
Scharnhorst and Gneisenau vs Glorious

Carriers should probably be included as targets if nothing else.

Besides, a gunnery battle between Lexington/Saratoga and Kaga/Akagi might be interesting since they all had 8 inch guns when converted.

Re: Grand Fleets III

bekosh wrote:

Carriers should probably be included as targets if nothing else.

Besides, a gunnery battle between Lexington/Saratoga and Kaga/Akagi might be interesting since they all had 8 inch guns when converted.

Perhaps I mis-spoke (mis-typed?)

Carrier OPERATIONS will not be modeled. However, carriers as ships/targets will certainly pop up.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

Excellent! Inter-war AND Pre-dreads. Sweet! :mrgreen:

BTW your Akagi silhouette is for 1941 instead of 1927. :ugeek: <ducks for cover>

Re: Grand Fleets III

bekosh wrote:

BTW your Akagi silhouette is for 1941 instead of 1927. :ugeek: <ducks for cover>

You are officially OFF Santa's "nice" list. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Grand Fleets III

And this... is why Dan loves historicals so much.  wink

Re: Grand Fleets III

Thanks for the answers.

Some comments:

1) Perhaps taking carriers will allow your side the possibility of buying more aircraft resources than someone who doesn't bring them?

2) Full on stats for airplanes doesn't sound in the works, but you could possibly have national advantages/disadvantages with the possibility of there being slight bonuses to represent certain types of aircraft.  Not necessary but it can be fun.

3) Subs as a resource sounds cool.  If there is anyway you can wing it that WWII german subs have some cool advantage/synergy/can buy more - that would be cool.

Looking forward to the game.  Are you going to cover all of Pre-dread to WWII in one game?

-Tim

Re: Grand Fleets III

Pre-Dreds and Great War will get me in. Not so interested in WW2, but I do play moderns.

Abstracted air and submarine assets sounds a good way to handle them.

The cards look fantastic.

Re: Grand Fleets III

My questions for GFIII are roughly the same as for GFII:
1.) will there be ways for us to add our own 'fantasy' ships or historic 'never-were's'... or will the formula be secret?
2.) will there be one or two books, which get dropped for another game soon after?
3.) will there be projects planned, posted, then dropped (like the GFII Ruso-Japanese war book)?

I invested my money in GFII when there wasn't a lot of it (the price of the book was 10% of a week's check!) and then, suddenly, it was left unsupported. If I go out on a limb and invest the money in GFIII- which looks pretty, and seems to have a lot of 'ease of play' potential- will it die off just as soon?

While I'm much impressed with the joint venture with ADB for Starmada, I'm disappointed that a naval combat system that beats out GWaS by leaps and bounds was, unfortunately, left in the dust of flashier projects.

Re: Grand Fleets III

So with Nova out the door - will what the schedule for GF3?

-Tim