Topic: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

So going off of my old BFG conversion I tested a single vessel with the conversion rules... okay, pre 1.0 conversion. Looks like a few things might have been altered. So I was going to see if a straight link would work to the printout.
(Nope, it won't.)

So a C&P
Imperial DOMINATOR-class Cruiser  (194)
ARMOR: 0
HULL: 12
THRUST: 4
SHIELDS: 3
Weapon Battery 30cm  [PP2][SS2] RANGE 6|27     19     14     10     7     5     3     2     2     1     1     1
Nova Cannon (Bls/Dx2/Prc/Prx)     [FR]     RANGE 18|5     3     2     2     1     1     1
Turrets (Acr) [TT] RANGE 3|1     1     1
Teleport Attack (Crn/Prc)     [TT] RANGE 3|1     1     1

(Need a better way to print this without having to save it as an image and uploading. :-\)

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

Alex Knight wrote:

So going off of my old BFG conversion I tested a single vessel with the conversion rules... okay, pre 1.0 conversion. Looks like a few things might have been altered. So I was going to see if a straight link would work to the printout.
(Nope, it won't.)
So a C&P
Imperial DOMINATOR-class Cruiser  (194)
ARMOR: 0
HULL: 12
THRUST: 4
SHIELDS: 3
Weapon Battery 30cm  [PP2][SS2] RANGE 6|27     19     14     10     7     5     3     2     2     1     1     1
Nova Cannon (Bls/Dx2/Prc/Prx)     [FR]     RANGE 18|5     3     2     2     1     1     1
Turrets (Acr) [TT] RANGE 3|1     1     1
Teleport Attack (Crn/Prc)     [TT] RANGE 3|1     1     1
(Need a better way to print this without having to save it as an image and uploading. :-\)

I don't know whether you're interested in a collaborative effort or not, but a lot of our Nova playtesting was done using Chaos and Eldar ships from BG.
We didn't do any converting, though, so all of our efforts were Nova based from the start.
If you're interested, you might take a look at the ships in the drydock filed under "redneckgamer" and "underling," and let us (me) know what you think.
We were fairly satisfied with how both races worked, although a few of the abilities in BG were kind of tough to port over. The Eldar second move is one ability in particular that doesn't have a similar mechanic in Nova.

Kevin

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

underling wrote:
Alex Knight wrote:

So going off of my old BFG conversion I tested a single vessel with the conversion rules... okay, pre 1.0 conversion. Looks like a few things might have been altered. So I was going to see if a straight link would work to the printout.
(Nope, it won't.)
So a C&P
Imperial DOMINATOR-class Cruiser  (194)
ARMOR: 0
HULL: 12
THRUST: 4
SHIELDS: 3
Weapon Battery 30cm  [PP2][SS2] RANGE 6|27     19     14     10     7     5     3     2     2     1     1     1
Nova Cannon (Bls/Dx2/Prc/Prx)     [FR]     RANGE 18|5     3     2     2     1     1     1
Turrets (Acr) [TT] RANGE 3|1     1     1
Teleport Attack (Crn/Prc)     [TT] RANGE 3|1     1     1
(Need a better way to print this without having to save it as an image and uploading. :-\)

I don't know whether you're interested in a collaborative effort or not, but a lot of our Nova playtesting was done using Chaos and Eldar ships from BG.
We didn't do any converting, though, so all of our efforts were Nova based from the start.
If you're interested, you might take a look at the ships in the drydock filed under "redneckgamer" and "underling," and let us (me) know what you think.
We were fairly satisfied with how both races worked, although a few of the abilities in BG were kind of tough to port over. The Eldar second move is one ability in particular that doesn't have a similar mechanic in Nova.

Kevin

Heh...  I've begun doing BFG conversions as well, also straight from BFG to Nova with no AE middleman.  Going to start porting them over here soonish.  Quite curious to see how you handled the Eldar, because I do not have a satisfactory solution yet either.

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

underling wrote:

I don't know whether you're interested in a collaborative effort or not, but a lot of our Nova playtesting was done using Chaos and Eldar ships from BG.
We didn't do any converting, though, so all of our efforts were Nova based from the start.
If you're interested, you might take a look at the ships in the drydock filed under "redneckgamer" and "underling," and let us (me) know what you think.
We were fairly satisfied with how both races worked, although a few of the abilities in BG were kind of tough to port over. The Eldar second move is one ability in particular that doesn't have a similar mechanic in Nova.

Kevin

Huh. I'll have to take a look. Really I posted this so I could be the first to post in the new Bourbaki Basin for S:Nova. big_smile
This was a direct conversion from the S:AE version of the BFG ships that Nomad started and I revised with my own thoughts. I wanted to see how the conversion would look. Especially after converting my Final Fantasy 12 airships and seeing that all but one of them used WAY too much SU. Granted this was before the 1.0 revisions. I'll have to post the designs with the direct conversions and the Mk. II revisions to match them.

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

Nomad wrote:
underling wrote:

If you're interested, you might take a look at the ships in the drydock filed under "redneckgamer" and "underling," and let us (me) know what you think.

Heh...  I've begun doing BFG conversions as well, also straight from BFG to Nova with no AE middleman.  Going to start porting them over here soonish.  Quite curious to see how you handled the Eldar, because I do not have a satisfactory solution yet either.

Well, first of all, the Chaos conversion s Mark did were stored in the sandbox, which was cleared out a few days ago.
He may be able to reload those into his file, but we'll see.

Once we adopted a baseline for the weapons batteries and torpedoes, the conversions were fairly straightforward.
I won't go into the details, as you can see them in the ship designs themselves (at least the Eldar in the "underling" folder.

The Eldar were a little different matter.
The saves ability came over okay, as we simply gave them a high shield rating.
The problem with the Eldar is that in Nova it's hard to reproduce their maneuverability.
There is no second move mechanic in Nova, so the question becomes how do you make their speed pay off.

And the quick answer is you can't.

In Nova, once you get up to about a thrust of six or so, any thrust above that starts becoming a diminishing "return on investment." I don't have any ship design experience in previous editions, but I have dinked around quite a bit with Nova (but not in the last two or three months, so the point costing may have been tweaked a little in the interum).

We found that keeping them to a thrust of seven (cruisers), and eight (little guys), made them a little faster than the norm, but still allowed for some offensive punch.
I toyed with some designs using a thrust of twelve, but the verdict is still out on that.

For protection, a little ECM, quite a bit of shielding, with a layer or two of Stealth, seemed to capture their ability to be hard(er) to damage.
We experimented with Cloaking, but in our opinion that's not really how they work in BG.

Overthrusters is an ability that was added after our initial ship designs, so that may be something that might be worked into to capture their maneuverability a little more.

Hopefully Mark will be able to reload his Chaos stuff over the next few days.

Kevin

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

I'd think you'd want to add armour to imperial ships - especially those with the "armoured prow".

-Tim

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

underling wrote:

Well, first of all, the Chaos conversion s Mark did were stored in the sandbox, which was cleared out a few days ago.

I have a ZIP file of the designs that were in the sandbox.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

cricket wrote:
underling wrote:

Well, first of all, the Chaos conversions Mark did were stored in the sandbox, which was cleared out a few days ago.

I have a ZIP file of the designs that were in the sandbox.

Can you reload those into his user file, or is that something he's going to have to do?
And i guess if nothing else, you could just e-mail him the zip file he could reload them if he wants to.

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

Marauder wrote:

I'd think you'd want to add armour to imperial ships - especially those with the "armoured prow".
-Tim

We didn't do anything with the Imperial ships, as we were dealing only with Chaos and Eldar.
But you're right, we 'd probably want to replicate that with any Imperial conversions.

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

underling wrote:
cricket wrote:
underling wrote:

Well, first of all, the Chaos conversions Mark did were stored in the sandbox, which was cleared out a few days ago.

I have a ZIP file of the designs that were in the sandbox.

Can you reload those into his user file, or is that something he's going to have to do?
And I guess if nothing else, you could just e-mail him the zip file he could reload them if he wants to.

It looks like Mark's early Chaos designs are now loaded back in his file ("redneckgamer"), so take a look and see what you think.
Kevin

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

My solution for the armored prow was Directional Defenses (Forward) and either Stealth 1 or ECM 1 (to taste).  The -1s from DD and Stealth stack in the forward arc to halve incoming fire from that direction (which is equivalent to 5+ vs 6+ saves in BFG; 6+ will suffer half as many hits at 5+), while the -1 Stealth cancels the +1 outside of the forward arc.  It does leave on a bit vulnerable to Fire Control, though.

And yeah, Overthrusters look like a good match for Eldar; it's a reactionary post-move mechanic somewhat in the spirit of a second move, and very 'farseer'-some.  8 thrust is about what I came up with as well.  I'm mostly concerned that they only have short-range, forward-facing weapons, and not many of those (though they are accurate)...  Did you have trouble getting into position or inflicting damage, Underling?

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

Nomad wrote:

And yeah, Overthrusters look like a good match for Eldar; it's a reactionary post-move mechanic somewhat in the spirit of a second move, and very 'farseer'-some.  8 thrust is about what I came up with as well.  I'm mostly concerned that they only have short-range, forward-facing weapons, and not many of those (though they are accurate)...  Did you have trouble getting into position or inflicting damage, Underling?

The current version of the Shadow class crusiser has 16 dice at range 9 with an FF arc.
I'm going to revisit the Eldar with the inte ntion of bringing the thrust back down to around 8, which will also allow me to lower the tech level (if I'm not mistaken).

I didn't really find any trouble getting into a position to inflict damage.
It was the inflicting damage, and then not getting the bejeezus shot out of you that could be a little tricky.  smile
That's why I'm really curious to see how overthrusters will work.

Typically what I'd try to do is maintain a fairly high movement rate, deliver a shot, and then put the pedal down and accelerate to the edge of the board (leaving enough room to decelerate and turn around, of course).
It didn't always work, and if I wasn't making my shield saves the game could deteriorate fairly quickly.

What our group did was decide on basic hull sizes, basic weapon traits, give most everyone an ECM of 1, and then tweak the dice totals so that each class of ship was delivering a rough equivalent of their BG counterpart.

I've also got some of the old Spacefleet ships (with very pronounced sails), and I'd like to dink around with the solar sails ability. (Dan listens every once in a while).  wink

Kevin

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

underling wrote:

The current version of the Shadow class crusiser has 16 dice at range 9 with an FF arc.
I'm going to revisit the Eldar with the inte ntion of bringing the thrust back down to around 8, which will also allow me to lower the tech level (if I'm not mistaken).

I didn't really find any trouble getting into a position to inflict damage.
It was the inflicting damage, and then not getting the bejeezus shot out of you that could be a little tricky.  smile
That's why I'm really curious to see how overthrusters will work.

Typically what I'd try to do is maintain a fairly high movement rate, deliver a shot, and then put the pedal down and accelerate to the edge of the board (leaving enough room to decelerate and turn around, of course).
It didn't always work, and if I wasn't making my shield saves the game could deteriorate fairly quickly.

What our group did was decide on basic hull sizes, basic weapon traits, give most everyone an ECM of 1, and then tweak the dice totals so that each class of ship was delivering a rough equivalent of their BG counterpart.

I've also got some of the old Spacefleet ships (with very pronounced sails), and I'd like to dink around with the solar sails ability. (Dan listens every once in a while).  wink

Kevin

Ahh, upgraded the range to 9.  That'd help, certainly; I think that's what I ended up doing with my later-gen AE conversions.  Getting in, hitting, and trying not to die matches my experience in AE pretty nicely; cloaking sure helped in getting out intact tongue.  What shields did you use?

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

Nomad wrote:

Ahh, upgraded the range to 9.  That'd help, certainly; I think that's what I ended up doing with my later-gen AE conversions.  Getting in, hitting, and trying not to die matches my experience in AE pretty nicely; cloaking sure helped in getting out intact tongue.  What shields did you use?

I think the current version of the Shadow (Type A) has an ECM of 1, Shields of 4+, Stealth rating of 2, and a thrust of 12.
We've experimented with shields as low as 2+ also.

I've also come up with a Shadow (Type B) that sacrifices some offensive capabilities and adds the Command ability. What Command actually does, or is going to do, it still up in the air though, so the Type B isn't quite functional yet.

We simulate fighters differently than what is in the rules, basically by using them as seeking weapons, so the Eclipse probably looks a little odd. I haven't found it to be nearly as effective as the Shadow.

Kevin

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

OK; I was looking at ECM 4 and Shields 4+, so similar ranges.  And fighters as slow-firing seeking weapons seem perfectly reasonable; if only you could fire them at other seekers for that combat-interceptiony feel.

Re: Battlefleet Gothic SAE to Nova Conversion

Nomad wrote:

And fighters as slow-firing seeking weapons seem perfectly reasonable; if only you could fire them at other seekers for that combat-interceptiony feel.

Fighters are the one thing we haven't experimented much with.
We played a few playtest games with the actual fighter rules, and decided they weren't really for us.
Our group prefers not to clutter the board too much with stuff other than ships, so we've kind of glossed over fighter effects. We do like the way seekers work, though, and when you throw on the expendable trait, we think that that simulates the launching of big waves of fighters fairly well. 

You're right in that it doesn't capture fighter versus fighter combat very well.
We just use the short range (1/2/3) weapons to simulate anti-fighter batteries and kind of leave it at that.

Kevin